Hey Keith

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Re: Hey Keith

Post  RedMagma on Sat Jan 05, 2008 7:32 am

Re: Why Does Hank Steinbrenner Insist On Playing G.M.?
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeterismyhomeboy
The NYT article yesterday about the money at the center of the Santana trade may say that there is a debate within the organization, but it also says that Hank isn't acting alone, and that there is a separation of power in the Yankee hierarchy. It seems that the FO operates with Cashman making the primary decisions on personnel, Hal making the primary decisions on money, and Hank getting voice in both issues, but secondarily.

Sure, Sox fans can say whatever the hell they want. Why should we ever care about what Sox fans think on SoSH? Why should we spend our time as Yankee fans obsessing over what they're thinking? George Steinbrenner was blustery and loud, but he cared about winning. Clearly Hank and Hal care about winning too, but there's a system in place to keep the owners from running rampant. So let Hank run his mouth. He's all bark and no bite at this point.

And let's be above the silly obsessiveness of Red Sox fans, the ones with an inferiority complex that rivals the Indian subcontinent in size. We don't give a damn about what anyone else's fans think. We are fans of the New York Yankees. Let inferiors hem and haw over perception.

Have you thought about becoming a motivational speaker ?

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Re: Hey Keith

Post  RedMagma on Sat Jan 05, 2008 7:33 am

from NyFans

Originally Posted by jeterismyhomeboy
The NYT article yesterday about the money at the center of the Santana trade may say that there is a debate within the organization, but it also says that Hank isn't acting alone, and that there is a separation of power in the Yankee hierarchy. It seems that the FO operates with Cashman making the primary decisions on personnel, Hal making the primary decisions on money, and Hank getting voice in both issues, but secondarily.

Sure, Sox fans can say whatever the hell they want. Why should we ever care about what Sox fans think on SoSH? Why should we spend our time as Yankee fans obsessing over what they're thinking? George Steinbrenner was blustery and loud, but he cared about winning. Clearly Hank and Hal care about winning too, but there's a system in place to keep the owners from running rampant. So let Hank run his mouth. He's all bark and no bite at this point.

And let's be above the silly obsessiveness of Red Sox fans, the ones with an inferiority complex that rivals the Indian subcontinent in size. We don't give a damn about what anyone else's fans think. We are fans of the New York Yankees. Let inferiors hem and haw over perception.

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Re: Hey Keith

Post  RedMagma on Sat Jan 05, 2008 7:36 am

George Vecsey, Why do you give Paul Byrd a pass? And why the slurs about Andy Pettitte in the off season? You know something?

WHY DON'T YOU SAY 1000 UNIT HGH SHOOTER PAUL BYRD AND THE CLEVELAND INDIANS MANAGER SHOULD GET THEIR REAR ENDS DOWN TO CONGRESS? Why do you instead print words about Andy Pettitte that are either:

* The result of secret, yet to be released evidence of which you alone have personal knowledge and fail to cite. Do tell, if you know.

or

* You knowingly invite your reader to believe something horrible about Andy Pettitte because it's as easy as taking candy from a baby. The Yankees are asleep at the wheel, as usual.

From George Vecsey in the NY Times: "It is hard to imagine Pettitte, who is something of a follower, doing something more bold than his mentor, Clemens. But Pettitte is not going to be a serious candidate for the Hall of Fame, like the burly man who taught him how to work oh so much harder than anybody else during those off-season sessions in the Clemens home gym in Katy, Tex."

* MR. VECSEY, PAUL BYRD DOES NOT DENY SHOOTING UP THROUGHOUT THE 2007 POST SEASON. WHY THE HELL DO YOU AT THE GREAT NY TIMES NOT EVEN MENTION HIS NAME?

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Re: Hey Keith

Post  RedMagma on Sat Jan 05, 2008 7:37 am

CBS Clarifies Wallace’s Account of Clemens Interview



http://bats.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/01/03/no-injections-from-trainer-clemens-tells-60-minutes/

By Michael S. Schmidt

Tags: Mitchell report, roger clemens, steroids

UPDATED: In a statement, CBS attempted to clarify Mike Wallace’s characterization of an interview with Roger Clemens for “60 Minutes.” Read the news story including new quotes from Wallace’s interview with Clemens here.



Roger Clemens told Mike Wallace in an interview for “60 Minutes,” scheduled to be broadcast on Sunday, that he never took injections from his former trainer, Brian McNamee, Wallace said.

Some athletes, confronted with evidence that they were injected with performance-enhancing drugs, have admitted they took injections but have said they did not know that they were for banned substances.

“He says what he has said before and has said all along,” Wallace said Thursday in a telephone interview. “He said he never took injections from McNamee. He says he didn’t take the stuff. Nothing different.”

McNamee made disclosures about Clemens to federal investigators and to George J. Mitchell, the former United States senator who conducted a 20-month investigation into performance-enhancing drugs in baseball. He said he injected Clemens with steroids at least four times each in the 1998, 2000 and 2001 seasons, and four to six times with human growth hormone in the 2000 season.

McNamee, who was Clemens’s longtime personal trainer, spoke with Mitchell under a deal with prosecutors that he would not be charged with drug dealing or lying to an agent if he told the truth.

Clemens has not answered questions from the news media since the Mitchell report was released. He has denied the allegations through his lawyer and his agent, and in a two-minute video released on the Internet.

The “60 Minutes” interview was taped Friday at Clemens’s home in Katy, Tex.

“He was first rate and forward with me,” Wallace said. “There isn’t a whole lot I can say about the interview; I wouldn’t want to spoil it.”

McNamee’s lawyers have said they will sue Clemens if he denies the truthfulness of McNamee’s statements. Richard D. Emery, a lawyer for McNamee, said Clemens should prevent the segment from being broadcast or face a lawsuit for damaging McNamee’s livelihood.

“He’s got a chance to protect himself,” said Emery, who specializes in libel and defamation lawsuits. “We’re not going to sue him if he doesn’t do it. But if he does it, we’re going to sue him.”

Wallace would not say how long he interviewed Clemens, and he said he had not seen the segment yet because it had not been edited.

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Re: Hey Keith

Post  RedMagma on Sat Jan 05, 2008 7:39 am

Former GM Terry Bradway - remember him? - took a lot of heat for questionable personnel moves, but some of his drafts are starting to look better. The Jets got Kerry Rhodes via the infamous Doug Jolley trade, albeit indirectly. Yes, Bradway dealt his 2005 first-round choice for Jolley, a useless tight end, but he also got three picks, including a sixth-rounder that was used as a bargaining chip. The Jets used it to trade up four spots in the fourth round to take Rhodes.

Originally published on November 29, 2006

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Re: Hey Keith

Post  RedMagma on Sat Jan 05, 2008 7:44 am

Mets keep eye on A's Joe Blanton

BY PETER BOTTE
DAILY NEWS SPORTS WRITER

Saturday, January 5th 2008, 4:00 AM


http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/mets/2008/01/05/2008-01-05_mets_keep_eye_on_as_joe_blanton-2.html

With A's general manager Billy Beane in an all-out rebuilding mode, starting pitcher Joe Blanton could be the next to depart Oakland.

A person with knowledge of the situation said Friday that the Mets remain "interested in doing something there" and recently asked Beane "to keep them in mind, just as it was with (ace Dan) Haren."

In the past month, Beane has extracted six prospects from Arizona for Haren and three more from the White Sox for switch-hitting outfielder Nick Swisher. The A's almost certainly would expect at least three more young players in return for Blanton, who is arbitration-eligible after making $380,000 last season. The 27-year-old righty has made at least 31 starts in each of his first three years. He went 14-10 with a 3.95 ERA in 230 innings in 2007.

As for Johan Santana, the Mets believe their status with the Twins is "pretty much in a holding pattern." A major-league official confirmed Minnesota has not moved off its desire for Jose Reyes to be included in any deal with the Mets, something GM Omar Minaya has insisted he won't consider. Minaya, who is off to Israel today as part of a week-long trip with prominent agent Arn Tellem and a Seeds of Peace delegation, was unavailable for comment Friday.

The Yankees and Red Sox remain the other teams waiting on the Twins concerning Santana. Yanks senior vice president Hank Steinbrenner told the Daily News earlier this week that he believes the Bombers have made "the best offer" - headlined by Phil Hughes and Melky Cabrera - for the two-time Cy Young Award winner.

Last night, outside Legends Field in Tampa, he told The AP, "Nothing is really decided at this point. I'm still leaning towards doing it (the deal). There's others (in the organization) leaning not to do it. There are some others that are leaning to do it also. Disagreements within the organization. Nothing major, but just different opinions. I've changed my opinion a couple times."

The Mets also have maintained dialogue throughout the winter with the agents for several fall-back pitching options, including unsigned free agents Kyle Lohse, Livan Hernandez, Jon Lieber and Freddy Garcia. Another reportedly available arm is that of Matt Morris, who is owed $10 million for 2008 after going 10-11 with a 4.89 ERA in 32 starts with the Giants and Pirates last season.

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Re: Hey Keith

Post  RedMagma on Sat Jan 05, 2008 7:54 am

Wax Heaven has an interesting feature up on Joba
ht : to Waswatching.com

[

The Prospect Corner with Adam G.

http://completist.wordpress.com/2008/01/04/the-prospect-corner-with-adam-g-4/

Joba Chamberlain Part II!

Last week I did a little piece on Joba Chamberlain that elicited a wide range of reactions. While I’m not a Yankees fan and I don’t own a single Joba Chamberlain card, I had to admit that Joba is generally worth the hype. Others, especially those that frequent the Beckett baseball forums, took my views as simply another sheep following the herd and falling for the Yankees hype machine. While I appreciate most of the opinions that I read and try to keep a level head about the prospecting side of card collecting, I am sometimes shocked at the lack of perspective that some prospectors seem to have at times. For instance, one individual questioned the hype surrounding Chamberlain, while in the same post mentioning something about Ian Kennedy having a chance to be a real solid starter for the Yankees. Another individual posted a comment saying that the only reason that Chamberlain did so well in the majors this year was because he had a BABIP of .229 and that if Andy Pettitte had had similar BABIP then we would be singing his praises and not Chamberlain’s.

In the interest of clarifying some of the mystique surrounding pitching prospects and to give the average fan a little more perspective, I’d like to give a quick breakdown on statistical pitching factors:





These numbers were pulled from an article written by James Click titled Baseball Prospectus Basics. The article ran February 20, 2004 and can be found here.

In simple terms, the Metric side of the table is a list of statistics kept on pitchers. The R-Squared column is the measurement of correlation, or the amount of importance the stat has in projecting a pitcher’s career. The closer the stat is to 1.000, the more likely it is that the stat will be a determining factor in predicting the future success of a player. The third column under Standard Deviation is the amount of variance you will likely see in each statistical category over time from player to player. The higher the standard deviation, the more variable the value of each stat is likely to be.

According to Click’s article, the most important statistics in predicting a pitcher’s future success are K/9 (R-squared = 0.5627) and GB/FB (R-squared = 0.5591). K/BB ratios (0.361) and BB/9 ratios (0.3413) are also of some importance, but generally speaking the more batters a pitcher strikes out per 9 innings and the more ground balls a pitcher can induce, the more successful they will be. This should make sense to even the casual baseball fan since the goal of a pitcher is to record as many outs as quickly as possible and the 2 most efficient means of recording outs is via the strikeout or groundout. To help put this information in perspective, I’ll give you a few comparisons from the 2007 season:



In general, all 4 of these pitchers had the same defensive players behind them and pitched against the same offensive line-ups throughout the season. Though ERA is based off or many variable factors, I think this short list illustrates the basic importance of the K/9 stat and the GB/FB stat. Carmona and Westbrook had similar K/9 rates, but Carmona had a much higher GB% and thus had a considerably lower ERA. If we compare Carmona with Sabathia, we can get a feel for the comparable values of the K/9 and GB/FB stats since their ERAs were both in the low 3.00 area. Sabathia averaged 2 more strikeouts per 9 innings pitched, while Carmona averaged about a 20% higher GB%. This breaks down to a 10% increase in GB% equaling an extra strikeout per 9 innings. To test this theory, let’s take a look at another pitching staff:




In this instance, Ted Lilly seems to be an outlier as the 3 other pitchers statistics neatly follow the basic formula of correlation between the K/9 and GB% statistics. You can see that Rich Hill and Carlos Zambrano have virtually the exact same ERA while Hill averages an extra strikeout per 9 innings and Zambrano averages 10% more in GB%.

I could go on and on with stats like these, but the important thing to take from all these numbers is the correlation between a player’s K/9 ratio, GB/FB ratio and his success as a big league pitcher. There are always a few pitchers that don’t fit neatly into these correlation formulas, but generally all pitchers do and those that don’t probably succeed for other reasons that are rarely consistent and usually don’t have much to do with the pitcher.

To get back to the debate surrounding Joba Chamberlain, let’s take a quick look at his numbers compared to a few more established pitchers:




Though Chamberlain’s GB% wasn’t very high, his K/9 ratio was so high that he effectively pitched better than every pitcher we have looked at thus far. I am fully aware that Chamberlain’s numbers are based off of a small sample size and his ERA will not stay at 0.38, but his K/9 ratio is very consistent with his minor league stats and his GB% is actually much lower than his minor league average. I expect that his K/9 ratio will remain above 10 and his GB% will likely reach 50% next year, meaning that he could easily outperform 95% of American League pitchers, including Johan Santana. Many collector’s will say that it’s too early to make predictions like that since Chamberlain is so young and inexperienced, but history has shown that pitchers only get better as they age into their late-20’s, and that means Chamberlain will only become more dominant. (On a side note, I threw in Pettitte’s and Kennedy’s stats to counter the posts I mentioned earlier)

I hope this post had put a little more perspective into the “hype” surrounding Chamberlain. As I said earlier, I’m not a Yankees fan nor do I own any Joba cards, but it is my intent to help other collectors refine their prospecting approach. Baseball is not a perfect science, and I don’t expect anyone to place their prospecting faith 100% on statistical analysis, but if you don’t understand the stat side of baseball, you are severely missing out both as a fan and a collector. I hope I have shed a little more light on this subject and hopefully I can move on to other players besides Chamberlain. I look forward to your comments and hope you’re as excited about Spring Training as I am.

-Adam G.


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Re: Hey Keith

Post  RedMagma on Sat Jan 05, 2008 7:59 am

Canseco “certainly doesn’t have what he claims to have on A-Rod”

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/2008/01/04/2008-01-04_ghost_writer_quits_jose_canseco_book.html?ref=rss
Quick note from the Daily News. Apparently, Jose Canseco handed over some of his material for his new book, Vindicated, to former Sports Illustrated associate editor Don Yeager, who was supposed to work on the book with him. After reviewing what Canseco has, though, Yeager passed, saying: “There’s no meat on the bones.” Specifically, he said that Canseco doesn’t have enough on A-Rod to make the case he’s been blabbing about.

Ht - RiverAveblues

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Re: Hey Keith

Post  RedMagma on Sat Jan 05, 2008 8:01 am

No One Ever Hit and Ran Bases As ARod Now Does

Alex Rodriguez is now the only player in Major League history to record at least 140 runs scored, 50 home runs, 150 RBIs and 20 stolen bases in a single season.

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Re: Hey Keith

Post  RedMagma on Sat Jan 05, 2008 8:03 am

Jose Canseco's sequel to his 2005 best-seller "Juiced" has hit its first snag.

As the Daily News first reported last weekend, former Bash Brother Canseco has finalized a deal to publish "Vindicated" with Penguin Books, with a planned release date to coincide with Opening Day. But former Sports Illustrated associate editor Don Yaeger, who was scheduled to collaborate with Canseco on the book, has passed on the project. Yaeger said Friday that Canseco does not have the goods on Yankees third baseman Alex Rodriguez that Canseco alluded to in media interviews last month.

"I'm passing," Yaeger told the Daily News. "I had a chance to review the Jose Canseco (material) that he provided me. I don't think there's a book there. I don't know what they're going to do. I don't think he's got what he claims to have, certainly doesn't have what he claims to have on A-Rod.

"There's no meat on the bones."

Robert Saunooke, Canseco's attorney, told the News that the plans to publish "Vindicated" are still going forward, with or without Yaeger.

"I'm not sweating it if Don passes," said Saunooke. "We had some terms of the contract concerning movie rights that we had to address which pushed the mansuscript date back. But we're still moving forward."

During media interviews in New York following the Mitchell Report's release Dec. 13, Canseco expressed surprise that A-Rod's name had not landed on the report.

"All I can say is the Mitchell Report is incomplete," Canseco said on the Fox Business Network. "I could not believe that (Rodriguez's) name was not in the report." On the Fox News Channel, Canseco said, "Alex Rodriguez is not who he appears to be. And we'll just leave it at that."

Yaeger said what he was provided with fell far short of the Canseco boasts. "The thing is, if he had all this material, why wasn't it in the first book?" asked Yaeger.

i know this will make gottagotomo happy. she has been saying all along that canseco had nothing and i believed it to. this makes it obvious canseco is full of it and desperate for money, and as far as his lawyer goes, that guy just wants a piece of the pie from the book to. it will be a huge flop and i am betting the publisher drops the book very soon.



canseco and his lawyer are both greedy sob's. and whatever canseco wants to say about arod, i'm sure the publisher has told him that it better be backed up with info or not said at all because i'm sure arod would file a lawsuit in a heartbeat against canseco for deffamation and libel.

canseco has no other outs right now for money. hes desperate and like i said, i doubt this book even comes out. this writer saying these things about the info canseco has is a HUGE hit for cansecos credibility and the book.

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Re: Hey Keith

Post  RedMagma on Sat Jan 05, 2008 8:05 am

How come Brian Roberts, Tejada ,Jay Gibbons, Paul Byrd , others doesn't have have to Testify to Congress?

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Re: Hey Keith

Post  RedMagma on Sat Jan 05, 2008 8:10 am

Igrew up with the late 50's and 60's Yankees (was described in my HS yearbook as a "rabid Yankee fan" and still am) and migrated to Australia in the mid 70's. For the past 10 or so years, I've been able to closely follow the team every day via the internet. The late '70's, 80's and very early "90's didn't exist for me in terms of the Yankees. It's always interesting looking at the possible off season and trade deadline moves. I'd really like to see the Yankees stick with their young pitching prospects. Sure, they all will not be aces and some might not cut it at all.....but some will and there's a lot of talent there to pick from. Santana's innings over the last 4 years in particular worry me. He may have a good year year in 2008, but I doubt he will have many "top of the rotation" years left in his arm. Let's stick with the kids, even if we don't win it all this year. Hell, it's been a few years since we won it all, so let's try it a different way this time. We might be pleasantly surprised this year. If we're not, we should know where our pitchers stand and then move accordingly. Hank is also a worry. We don't need loose cannons telegraphing what the intentions of the organisation are before trades are made. We'll only pay more as a result of that kind of stuff. Hank should let the baseball people make the decisions. He hasn't had the previous involvement and experience within the organisation that is required in order to know what's good and what isn't.



Minnesota say they are happy to keep Santana. However, they couldn't have been happy with him going 1-8 vs. division rivals Cleveland (0-5) and Detroit (1-3) last year. It gets worse when you look at the number of homeruns that he gave up. In 219 innings he gave up 33 homeruns. Team-mate Silva went for 20 in 202 innings. Wang went for only 9! Some others with similar innings to Santana-Beckett 17, Sabathia 20 (241 innings), Halladay 15, Pettitte 16, Carmona 16. Granted Santana led the league WHIP at 1.07 but he does give away some big hits and that's probably a big part of him only going 15-13 last year. Was his decline over the last few months of the season caused by a lack of interest, as Minnesota was out of the race, or was it all those innings starting to catch up with him? I think he's already had his best years. Let him stay in Minnesota or even go to Boston if they want to overspend for him. Let's see how our young guys develop. And it's not just Hughes that we're losing. Cabrera has developed into a very decent outfielder. He may have even led the league in outfield assists or was at least near the top of that list and he brings energy to the line-up. Keep the kids and let someone else get burned to the tune of $140,000,000.




It's not so much about the Yankee's need for Santana... which is important enough; it is about the fact that the Sox, with Santana, Beckett and Dice-K will be dominant for the next 5-7 years. That would all but nullify the rest of the career Jeter, ARod, the whole out field and Mariano. We'd be chasing Cleveland, Seattle and others for the wild card for the next decade. That is just unacceptable....


Posted by Chip | January 5, 2008 10:08

I don't think the Red Sox truly want Johan, more to the point I don't think the Twins really want to trade Johan. The offers for Santana haven't changed, to my knowledge, since the Winter Meetings. If the Twins wanted Hughes, Melky, Marquez, and another minor leaguer, then they would have done the deal already.

On another note, Andy Phillips signed a minor league deal with the Reds where he will compete for a bench role.

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Re: Hey Keith

Post  RedMagma on Sat Jan 05, 2008 8:13 am

Anyone going to New Hampshire to support Obama? Don't vote for Lunatic aka Matt Romney or Huckleberry Huckabee.

Vote for Obama for 2008... Time for a Change.. I'm tired of Bush and his lies... Don't vote anymore Republicans in any office....

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Re: Hey Keith

Post  RedMagma on Sat Jan 05, 2008 8:18 am

Hello! Do you have Lady Terminator full movie or Do you know where I can get it? Thanks

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Re: Hey Keith

Post  RedMagma on Sat Jan 05, 2008 8:23 am

Somewhatt weak? First all It's all speculation at this point. List of players that you mention was a speculation by Ny Papers. You don't know what Yankees are offering to Twins behind the scenes..

Talk about weak deal . Coco Crisp and below average pitching prospects. This is my opinion

Mets - No Jose Reyes in package are you kidding me? Pelfrey and three mediocre prospects.. F-Mart is another overhype Mets prospect.

Marquez was 12-4 with era of 3.51 in Double-A trenton

Marquez throws 93-95 . He's sinker ball pitcher like Wang . He throws sinker,changeup and developing curveball

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Re: Hey Keith

Post  RedMagma on Sat Jan 05, 2008 8:26 am

Johan Santana- I hate Mets. I don't want to Bat in National league which equivalent to triple-a..

I want to stay in AL where real competition is and I love the challenge.

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Re: Hey Keith

Post  RedMagma on Sat Jan 05, 2008 8:27 am

Pelfrey stinks.. Look at his record last year.......

Meanwhile Hughes 21 and 3 years younger than stinking Pelfrey and Humber

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Re: Hey Keith

Post  RedMagma on Sat Jan 05, 2008 8:33 am

Marquez is former first round sandwich pick which Yankees got for losing Fat David Wells when He sign with Padres.

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s

Post  RedMagma on Sat Jan 05, 2008 8:41 am

Get lost? Mets Fans are such a hypocrites. Mets Fans are one that complaining and whining about How Willie's done a bad job with Mets and not Overrated Omar. Willie's being disrespected by Mets Fans because He's former Yankee and they can't take it.

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Re: Hey Keith

Post  RedMagma on Sat Jan 05, 2008 8:46 am

Peter, Aussie, HYD, Viper and of course Yanks61...seems like our forces are gaining power!!! This reminds me of a previous post I made.....


Philip Wallace: Sons of Yankee Land I am Philip Wallace.
Yankee fan: Phillip Wallace is seven feet tall!
Philip Wallace: Yes, I've heard. Strikes out men by the hundreds. And if HE were here, he'd consume the Red Sox with fastballs from his eyes, and bolts of breaking balls from his arse.
[Yankee fans laugh]
Philip Wallace: I AM Philip Wallace! And I see a whole chat room of my fans, here, in defiance of signing Santana. You've come to argue about building from within, and building from within you are. What will you do with those prospects? Will you win with them?
Yankee fan: Against the Sox? No, we will try to sign Santana, and we will win.
Philip Wallace: Aye, fight and you may lose, sign Santana, and you may win... at least a while. And sitting in the stands, many years from now, would you be willin' to trade ALL the prospects, from this day to that, just for one WS? Or would you keep the prospects for one more chance, just one chance, to come back here and tell our enemies that they may take our WS ring in 08, but they'll never take... OUR NEW DYNASTY!!!
Philip Wallace Go back to all the GM’s and tell them that the Yankees’ daughters and sons are yours no more. Tell them the prospects are staying. I AM Phil Wallace, and I will lead the Yankess back to GLORY!!!

Lets say that Joba lives up to his celing and the rest of the SP's live up to their floors, what rotation would we have for the next 10 years?

Joba #1
Phil #2
Wang #3
IPK#4
Horne#5

In that scenario we would have our #1, Phil would slid into the Andy Pettite late 90's spot as our stopper at #2 ( people have projected him as a #1 since he came out of HS ) . Wang would slide into his natural slot as a #2/#3, eating up tons of innings and saving the bullpen. IPK ( who I think can be a #2 ), would be a solid #4 starter also going deep into games ( great BB rate ) and also saving our pen. To round it out Horne ( who could be a #3 for most teams ) would follow suit as another solid SP. Now there is nothing wrong with that rotation. Sure you could stick Johan in there to make it better. But this rotation is cheaper and will be together longer.

In another three years guys like Brackman, Betances, Marquez, McCutchen would be ready to start. I see people complain about having too many SP and not enough spots...give me that problem any day! If any of those 4 turn out to be great, awesome!! We could have them battle out Horne and IPK in the spring for a spot. We would obviously keep 6 to have a backup SP, but the rest we can then trade away to fill any holes we may have at that time. If we package these lower level prospects into a deal as throw in players, we dont know how they will turn out. Look at the trade the SF giants and Twins made a couple years back.

Twins trade

AJ Perzinski ( one of the top C at the time )

SF trade

Joe Nathan
Boof Bonser
Francisco Liriano

Liriano was a throw in player at the end of the deal. Now he's considered one of the best SP's in the league. By the way, a year later, AJ left the Giants.

My point being that over time these throw in players value will increase and we can use them at larger chips down the line while our 3 horsemen develop into a possible Maddux, Glavine and Smoltz. Who knows? No probable, but possible.

Let me put this another way. Back in 93/94 would you guys have traded Andy Pettite and Bernie Williams for Greg Maddux? I will use Greg Maddux as an example because at the time he was in his prime and winning CY Youngs ( best year was 94 at age 28 ). While Andy and Bernie were at similar points in their careers as Melk and Phil. Now Greg's was SOLID each year for the next 9 years. Whoever gets Johan can only wish for the same results as Greg had over the following 9 years after his 28th B day . On the flip side, if we keep Melk and Phil, we can only dream that their career paths are similar to Andy and Bernie's. So again, would you have traded young prospects Andy and Bernie for Greg Maddux? At the time that is an easy question, almost as easy as Phil and Melk for Santana. Knowing what we do 14 years later though, I would not have made that deal.

Thoughts??

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Re: Hey Keith

Post  RedMagma on Sat Jan 05, 2008 8:58 am

Do you think Mets can win WS even if They trade for Santana?

There's no way I think Mets can beat AL Teams. Look what happen to Mets play The Tigers last year? Perez and Glavine struggle. Now Tigers add Willis and Cabrera.

Also, I don't think Mets had no chance beating 2007 WS winner Boston Redsox or 2008.

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Re: Hey Keith

Post  RedMagma on Sat Jan 05, 2008 9:00 am

First year? This Pelfrey second year? Did you forget about Did He pitch in 2006? Oops...

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Re: Hey Keith

Post  RedMagma on Sat Jan 05, 2008 9:01 am

Above average curve? Are you out of mind?

He's one pitch pitcher, He throws a sinker, He's slider in work on progress.

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Re: Hey Keith

Post  RedMagma on Sat Jan 05, 2008 9:05 am

Redsox and Tigers, Indians > Mets

For crying out loud , Mets can even 't beat stinking Washington Nationals and Florida Marlins. How that turned out last year?

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Re: Hey Keith

Post  RedMagma on Sat Jan 05, 2008 9:18 am

Top 30 Pitchers


I made a post on the old board (I was unable to find) about the top 30 pitchers mid-season, when everyone was saying that the Mets did not have a front end guy. I revisited that today (as it was well received) and here is what I determined.

Before looking at this, remember that there are 150 SP slots in the majors --> 5 slots per team x 30 teams <-- and of this, only 30 can be considered number one pitchers. But not all number one pitchers are "Ace" material. I'd say only 1/3 are. Of the remaining top 30 pitchers, #11-20 are Tier 1A starters, and #21-30 are Tier 1B. The difference between tier 1A and tier 1B is this: A has the potential to become an ace / was an ace, B has the potential to become a number 1 rotation man, but not an ace at this point in his career.

Based on past results and possible future returns, here are what I believe are the best pitchers to be next season. I used ERA, IP, BB, and SO for this formal to get the body, and W-L to determine position changes.


Quote:
Aces

(1) Peavy, SD
(2) Sabathia, CLE
(3) Beckett, BOS
(4) Santana, MIN
(5) Lackey, ANA
(6) Webb, ARZ
(7) Carmona, CLE
(Cool Penny, LAD
(9) Haren, ARZ
(10) Oswalt, HOU

Tier 1A Starters

(11) Escobar, ANA
(12) Verlander, DET
(13) Wang, NYY
(14) Harang, CIN
(15) Hudson, ATL
(16) Bedard, BAL
(17) Zambrano, CHC
(1Cool Hamels, PHI
(19) Smoltz, ATL
(20) Jesus, TAM

Tier 1B Starters

(21) O. Perez, NYM
(22) Halladay, TOR
(23) Vasquez, CHW
(24) Maine, NYM
(25) Lilly, CHC
(26) Francis, COL
(27) Young, SD
(2Cool Hernandez, SEA
(29) Wainwright, STL
(30) Shields, TAM


Discuss.

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Re: Hey Keith

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