Santana

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Re: Santana

Post  RedMagma on Thu Jan 10, 2008 8:39 am

Jays chiropractor doesn't think Clemens was on steroids: rep

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/baseball/story/2008/01/09/jays-coctor-clemens.html#skip300x250


A chiropractor who treated Roger Clemens during his time with the Toronto Blue Jays didn't see any signs of steroid use by the seven-time Cy Young winner, according to the Toronto Sun.

Patrick Graham, the team's chiropractor, told the paper he worked on Clemens daily in his two seasons with the Blue Jays and believes the veteran's assertion that he never took steroids — at least when he was in Toronto.

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Re: Santana

Post  RedMagma on Thu Jan 10, 2008 8:43 am

Jays chiropractor doesn't think Clemens was on steroids: report


http://www.cbc.ca/sports/baseball/story/2008/01/09/jays-coctor-clemens.html#skip300x250

A chiropractor who treated Roger Clemens during his time with the Toronto Blue Jays didn't see any signs of steroid use by the seven-time Cy Young winner, according to the Toronto Sun.

Patrick Graham, the team's chiropractor, told the paper he worked on Clemens daily in his two seasons with the Blue Jays and believes the veteran's assertion that he never took steroids — at least when he was in Toronto.

Roger Clemens denied using steroids and HGH in an interview with Mike Wallace from the CBS show 60 Minutes.Roger Clemens denied using steroids and HGH in an interview with Mike Wallace from the CBS show 60 Minutes.
(Associated Press)

"I didn't notice any rashes, acne or increased muscle mass or structure," he said.

"I think I would have seen signs of it," adding he always thought Clemens's success in Toronto was due to his then newly developed "split-fingered fastball."

Clemens, along with Barry Bonds and Canadian Eric Gagne, were the predominant names mentioned in the Mitchell report released last month, linking more than 80 major league players to steroid use.

Clemens's former trainer, Brian McNamee, told former U.S. Senate majority leader George Mitchell that he injected the star pitcher with steroids and human growth hormone while they were in Toronto in 1998, and in 2000 and 2001 when the two were with the New York Yankees.
Continue Article

Clemens, 45, denies using steroids, and filed a defamation lawsuit Sunday against McNamee.

But McNamee's lawyer said his client stands by the information he gave Mitchell.

Graham said he saw Clemens for treatments even after the pitcher left the Jays organization and he didn't notice any body changes.

"I haven't seen him for two years, but I just don't think he was on steroids," said Graham.
With files from the Canadian Press

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Re: Santana

Post  RedMagma on Thu Jan 10, 2008 8:47 am

I throw a mean gyroball

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Re: Yankees In Talks With Twins About Santana Part X
Quote:
Originally Posted by PYanks
"Yankees may give up on Johan Santana BY PETER BOTTE"--Daily News story today:
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/ba...santana-2.html

So, just as the Mets seems to be closer to a possible trade, Hank also gracefully eases the Yankees out of the hot spot, as follows from the article cited above:

"We went into this with me [Hal] making the final baseball decisions and Hal more addressing the financial aspects of the company, but we both do everything," Steinbrenner said yesterday in a phone interview. "We're equal partners, but at this point, to tell you the truth, I'm leaning away from it anyway, so it doesn't matter. Same thing with Brian, he's another integral part of it, obviously, being the general manager, and one day he's leaning to do it and the next day he's not sure.
"But what it comes down to right now is giving up a lot (in a trade) and then having to do the big contract, as well. If (Santana) was just a free agent, we could just go ahead and do it. There's a big difference this way. We have to sign him as if he's a free agent, plus you have to give up major talent. That's a tall order."

This is all VERY GOOD NEWS, imo.


All an act, PR posturing..
Although I will say this is one rare case I am rooting for the Mets.
No Johan in AL, no Johan in Boston, no Johan on any other AL contender.
Hughes still a Yankee..
World would be good..

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Re: Santana

Post  RedMagma on Thu Jan 10, 2008 8:52 am

Not exactly great news . We would have been fine if Boston traded for him. I'll tell you one of the things that are great news. Since the Mets want to trade for him that means the Yankees can't and if the Yankees can't that means that we don't have to trade Hughes. So in the sense that he has to be traded. I guess it is great news. I just would of preferred picking him up in the offseason.


[quote=Aeromac76}And anywhere he goers in the NL, even the Mets, is fine with me[/quote]

If he has to be traded and there is no way working around getting him in the offseason then I would be thankful whereever he goes as long as it isn't the............ New York Yankees. Yes, the Mets and the Red Sox(especially the Red Sox) would be extremely hard to beat with Santana. But, If we don't have to give up Hughes or Tabata or Jackson or Horne etc. to get Santana then I'm happy. Hughes has more of a positive upside then Santana anyway. I could see him just as good in maybe 3-4 years.


People seem to be in denial about how good the Sox will be if they get Johan.

I agree. Let him go to the Mets let their farm become barren and let us enjoy the the trifecta of Hughes, Chamberlain, and Kennedy for years to come. I know that most likely not all 3 will be studs but they could all be very good major league pitchers, the possibility is there and it would sicken me to see Hughes really blossom in a Twins uniform


"We went into this with me [Hal] making the final baseball decisions and Hal more addressing the financial aspects of the company..."

If everyone here saying that Hank isn't usurping Cashman's authority as GM can't see that Hank basically sees himself as the GM of the team and Cashman as an advisor, you're being stubbornly ignorant. He specifically says there that he went into this without even thinking he had much to do with the financial aspects - he was completely vested in approving player transactions! That's a GM! He got his hands directly in the player/personel decisions from a talent evaluation standpoint! How can people not see this? How can people not see that a horse breeder having final say over a career baseball man on player/personel decisions is probably not the most efficient process?

Originally Posted by GoRocket
Honestly, if we don't trade for Santana, I'd rather just let our young pitchers do their thing. Hughes and Chamberlain shouldn't be under any innings limitation for 2009 and if they progress as we hope, we won't need to sign a high-priced free agent.

Maybe! But I would hope we can at least go after Mark T. if hits FA. We might have all the pitching we need but we should at least go out and find ourselves a good first baseman for 09. And I think if he hits FA that might be the one we should go after.

Peavy must have been signed I am forgetful and sometimes forget who got signed and who didn't My bad!

One package has Ellsbury and 2 others

They might take this package they take. I don't know who the two others are but from the first name in the trade this might screw Boston up a little bit more then the other trade would.

Originally Posted by THEBOSS84
I think the Yanks will do everything in their power to sign Mark T.
Some of you will say he's going to play for Baltimore since that's his hometown yadayadada. No shot in hell he will sign there.
I agree, money talks anyone who doesn't believe that is dilusional.

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Re: Santana

Post  RedMagma on Thu Jan 10, 2008 8:54 am

A bit harsh no? It was the first significant injury he's had in a good 5 years before then and he proved he was healthy in September last year and has since had another 3 months of rest and rehab. I see no reason why he can't give the Mets a very good line. I'm thinking 13-15 wins, 180 IP, 180 K, 3.50 ERA

the twins better do something. i mean seriously,why dont teams just wait until next year and sign him as a free agent? santana is the one with the leverage,not the twins. if the twins dont trade him they are in deep trouble. a draft pick doesnt sound as good as any of these offers. not to mention santana has to agree to an extension in order to accept the trade. the twins should be worried about who is going to offer santana the best contract,not who they might get for him. what if they agree to a trade and then santana cant get his contract? the twins will be the ones scrambling,not the other teams. the yanks are saying that they will only go fuve years. big pr problems in minnesota and santana has all the power.


ok now they are just pushing this too far. to call this even a remotely close offer is a bold statement. The only reason the twins would even begin to look at this offer as a serious one is to ship santana off to the NL so they dont have to face him. Mets aint gettin him. sox n yanks wont allow it



"the fact is he can't hit for his life. Defense will only get you so far..."

This makes Cabrera sound a lot like Coco Crisp at about 1/10 the price.

"Mets aint gettin him. sox n yanks wont allow it"

Why the hell not? I think the Sox and Yanks would love to see Santana go to the NL. Both are in this more to block the other than to actually get Santana for what he will cost. The Yanks will take a little bit of a hit on the back pages of the tabloids for a few days if the Mets land Santana, but that won't last and they'll still draw their 4 million.


Charley Walters wrote this in his column for the St. Paul Pioneer Press:

As of Wednesday, plans were still for pitcher Johan Santana to be in Fort Myers, Fla., on Feb. 18, reporting with the Twins for the start of spring training, Twins general manager Billy Smith said.

"He's our Opening Day starter (against the Los Angeles Angels), and I like our chances to win," Smith said.

Smith wouldn't speculate on the chances of Santana being traded before then, but it's clear that the Boston Red Sox, New York Yankees and New York Mets still hope to make a deal for the two-time Cy Young Award winner who can become a free agent after this season.

"I can't predict the future," Smith said.

Santana, meanwhile, doesn't seem overly eager to learn where he'll be pitching this year. He hasn't called Smith to inquire about his status.


In a way, I hope it's true. I'd love to start the season with Santana.


I'll do the deal if F-Mart replaces Gomez and Pelfrey replaces Mulvey, heck I'll toss in Heilman so ....
Guerra, F-Mart, Heilman, Humbar Pelfrey for Santana

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Re: Santana

Post  RedMagma on Thu Jan 10, 2008 8:55 am

Yeah, I heard Hank say that this morning that he's leaning away from the deal.

Then, he took a bite of his grapefruit and said "well,I don't know....ummm...maybe we'll do something".

Then he farted and said "Is that Bedard kid still available?....Nah, I like Santana better....where's Cash at? Tell him to call those guys in Minny again....uh oh...I have to take a dump" and raced to the men's room.

This is all so technical.

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Re: Santana

Post  RedMagma on Thu Jan 10, 2008 8:57 am


Comments

why go after lane for 1B? yanks might as well go after mientkiewicz who will be both affordable AND will defensive wiz at first. lane would be a disaster

Posted by: KoolAid NYY | January 10, 2008 at 09:04 AM

it was actually the New York Post, not the Times, that ran this story. but what yanks shouldve done, with keep andy phillips. he was a fan favorite, could field really well, and could hit for average and in the clutch.

Posted by: epv2 | January 10, 2008 at 09:12 AM

The thing about Lane is that he actually won't have to learn 1st, as he played it quite frequently in ST. The Astros never needed him there because they either had Bagwell, Berkman or Lamb to man the position, and Lane is a good defensive outfielder. He would be the best defensive outfielder on the Yankees.....

Basically adding Lane the Yankees get a guy who can play all 3 outfield positions, 1b, and even pitch an inning or two if needed.

The main problem with Lane is that if he sees extended playing time, then there's a good chance he won't hit a thing.

Posted by: Darin | January 10, 2008 at 09:19 AM

As much as I hate to suggest it (and hope it doesn't happen), what about Johnson or Young to the Yankees for an upper-level pitching prospect? Thoughts?

Posted by: bignatsfan | January 10, 2008 at 09:25 AM

do you mean nick johnson and dmitri young from the nats?
first off, nick johnson never stays healthy. and second, dmitri isnt the right personality for the yankees... da meat hook just wouldnt fit in

Posted by: epv2 | January 10, 2008 at 09:27 AM

hahaha yeah I didn't think Young would fit in.

Johnson is an health liability, put he puts up some good numbers, and great at-bats when he's healthy, which he reportedly is again...

Posted by: bignatsfan | January 10, 2008 at 09:28 AM

hahaha yeah I didn't think Young would fit in.

Johnson is a health liability, put he puts up some good numbers, and great at-bats when he's healthy, which he reportedly is again...

Posted by: bignatsfan | January 10, 2008 at 09:29 AM

bignatsfan, do you remember who the yanks orignally traded nick johnson for? im drawing a blank

Posted by: epv2 | January 10, 2008 at 09:30 AM

Javier Vazquez. The Expos also got Juan Rivera and Randy Choate in that deal.

I was drawing a blank too - had to look it up.

Posted by: bignatsfan | January 10, 2008 at 09:33 AM

i feel like that deal was a push, johnson never stays healthy and vasquez was a bust for the yankees. even more so that the yankees got randy johnson for him. total busts

Posted by: epv2 | January 10, 2008 at 09:37 AM

yeah - now imagine if the Yanks picked Johnson back up despite his injury history!

Posted by: bignatsfan | January 10, 2008 at 09:40 AM

i would be the first to call for a firing of cashman

Posted by: epv2 | January 10, 2008 at 09:47 AM

1. Nick Johnson: never? in 05 and 06 he did play more games than Jason Giambi you know. oh and his line during those two season just happens to be fairly close to Giambi.

2. The Vazquez trade: see above, if the Yanks had Johnson in 05 / 06 it would have been a MEGA upgrade over Giambi at first with the glove and the parade of oldies and retread at DH for the Yankees. the Yanks got little in Johnson and they give up a fairly good catching prospect in Navarro for him. they really could use Navarro for back up C nowadays. oh and Juan Rivera also hit a ton in 06 when Matsui / Sheffield went down.

3. Nick Johnson's trade value right now isn't too high. I would give up a mid teir prospect for him sure. up clearly i wouldn't go up to a Hughes / Kennedy / Joba for him. at most I'd be willing to give them a Marquez or mayyybe a Horne or a combination of other guys.

Posted by: Yu Hsing Chen | January 10, 2008 at 09:48 AM

See, and I hope that the Yanks don't pick him up because c'mon, his luck's got to improve at SOME point. I think this could be the year he stays off the DL completely. He would have in 06 if he hadn't collided with Kearns.

Posted by: bignatsfan | January 10, 2008 at 09:51 AM

yanks didnt need navarro, b/c jose molina is pretty much the best backup backstop in baseball

Posted by: epv2 | January 10, 2008 at 09:54 AM

I'd love Johnson but the Yankees are too heavily left-handed as it is. Of course, left-handed or not, he would be better than most other options, but there are major issues with a trade for him - namely his injury and the Nats' asking price.

Johnson's major injury was a freak thing so I don't see how you can criticize him. If the Yankees had more RH hitters then Johnson would be at the absolute top of my radar.

I like Lane as a non-roster signing, but can't see him replacing anyone on the 40-man yet.

His defense in the OF is attractive, but between their 4 OF the Yankees do have 2 viable (though not great) options at each OF position, so this isn't critical.

If there's no risk to the signing (i.e. not a major league deal), then I'm fine with it. I'm sure they would have preferred Andy Phillips but they needed the roster space.

I'd be totally fine with a Duncan/Betemit platoon for now, with Giambi playing some as well (the more, the better, to get both Matsui and Damon in the lineup). 1B is a relatively easy position to upgrade at during the season. There's not much of a point in bringing in other mediocre options.

Rather than stick Lane or someone else there, I'd rather them give Matsui a shot at 1B.

Posted by: bobo | January 10, 2008 at 09:55 AM

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Re: Santana

Post  RedMagma on Thu Jan 10, 2008 8:57 am

Angels Discussing Konerko?

UPDATE, 1-10-08 at 9:45am: This one isn't dead quite yet. According to Buster Olney this morning:

Heard that while the Paul Konerko-Angels talks are not blistering hot now, there is a chance they will get hot sometime in the future.

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Re: Santana

Post  RedMagma on Thu Jan 10, 2008 9:01 am

.

http://www.metsblog.com/2008/01/10/poll-mets-twins-and-johan-santana/

Poll: Mets, Twins and Johan Santana


posted by Matthew Cerrone...

…if the Mets can acquire Johan Santana, but also keep Mike Pelfrey and Aaron Heilman, as well as Brant Rustich and Eddie Kunz, as the previous posts suggest, i’ll be happy…plus, don’t forget, the Mets have three picks during the first round-and-a-half of the draft in June…

…as i have written over and over again during this off-season, if the Mets do not think pelfrey and Phil Humber can develop in to a pitcher like santana, then they must pull the trigger on a trade with the Twins - since the Mets will always be able to sign a back-end starter on the open market…

…yes, peeling a layer off of this team’s minor-league system will hurt at first, and i’m sure i will squirm a bit, but if it is the only way to bring on an ace, to couple with John Maine and Oliver Perez, well, so be it…

…sure, i would love to keep fernando for obvious reasons…but, those same reasons are exactly why the Twins want him as well…from what i can gather, out of the young bunch, he is as close to an untouchable as the Mets have…the thing is, as serious of a prospect as he may be, he’s just a prospect…he isn’t Jose Reyes or David Wright, who are truly untouchable because they have proven themselves at the major-league level…fernando has not…he’s still an unknown, to some extent…

…ordinarily i would advise against trading so many young players, especially a potential star like martinez…but, the Mets are never going to sign an ace on the open market…it isn’t going to happen…too many teams are locking up their own talent on long-term extensions…in the last few years i had hoped the Mets could sign Roy Oswalt, Jake Peavy, Carlos Zambrano and others…the thing is, those guys never even hit the market…they all re-signed…and this trend will continue to happen because the game is so wealthy and pitching is in high demand…unlike a few years ago teams can now afford to keep their own players…so, while i may pretend that CC Sabathia will eventually wear a Mets uniform, odds are he’ll end up re-signing with his current team, just like oswalt, peavy and zambrano…

…i believe it is super important for this team to have a young, dominant ace for at least the next few seasons, and for the debut of Citi Field…and, as best i can tell, the only way it is going to happen for certain is if the Mets acquire santana right now…otherwise, i fear we will go through this same desperate charade next off-season, and the one after that, and the one after that…

…in other words, i want fernando…but, i also want an ace…and last i checked, unfortunately, fernando isn’t a pitcher…

Do you want to trade Fernando Martinez, Carlos Gomez, Deolis Guerra, Kevin Mulvey and Phil Humber for Johan Santana, who will require at least a six-year contract extension?

* Yes (72%, 344 Votes)
* No (28%, 136 Votes)

Total Voters: 480

It doesn’t matter what we’d prefer - it only matters what the Twins are willing to accept.

Too much. You cannot include both F Mart and Gomez in the same deal. I would reluctently offer 5 top prospects but without both of those outfielders together in the deal



It’s not so much trading both of them, it’s trading both of them PLUS Guerra, Mulvey and Humber. Wasn’t there just a post the other day saying how Gomez is more highly valued than Ellsbury? Why must the Mets give up so much?

Either Gomez OR F-Mart plus Guerra, Mulvey and Humber.

OR

Gomez, F-Mart, Mulvey and Humber (and maybe a B-level prospect).


It’s not so black and white. I mean I would trade all of them ONLY if it meant stopping the Twins from trading him to the Red Sox or Yankees. But my preference is to sit tight even if it means he isn’t traded to anyone and he becomes a free agent at the end of next season. I like the Mets chances if he’s a free agent, and they get to keep all their prospects too. That’s my #1 choice if the Twins arent’ going to accept the Mets’ 4-player package.




That is really hard to swallow…

Cerrone (or anyone w/ knowledge)…I don’t follow the draft prospects, but are there guys like FMart and Gomez that could be picked-up in the draft?




That is a lot of young talent. But at this point, I think we have to do it. What are our other options in the trade market? Blanton?
I am hoping we can sub FMart in for Gomez to lessen the blow but that may not happen.

Mets fans, lets look at the big picture. No matter what Willie/Omar say, we cannot win with the rotation we currently have. Pedro, Maine and Ollie and then Pelfrey/Humber or El Duque. You have to figure El Duque will wind up on the DL once, Pedro may not escape the DL either.

We are standing still right now. The Braves have improved their pitching with Glavine. The Phils have brought in Lidge as closer and moved Myers back to the rotation. We have done nothing this offseason.

I am hoping that we can pull off this deal and then possibly sign Colon or Garcia for the 5 spot for a cheap price or minor league deal.



If the real prospects the Twins are after are Martinez and Gomez, I still don’t see why the Mets should bid against themselves and drain their system of its perceived 5 best prospects. You either do the deal for 4, excluding one of the OF prospects, or you give them both and keep a Guerra or a Mulvey and substitute more “B, B- prospects).

Again, as others mentioned, the Twins should be getting value based on 1-year of Santana and an exclusive window to negotiate an extension. The Twins should not be getting value for 6-7 years of an under-contract Santana, which is what their demands seem to reflect.


GUYS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If you’re absolute blue-chip, can’t miss prospects were pitchers (like is the case with the Yanks and Red Sox), I would hesitate. But, our best prospects are two outfielders, one 21 and the other 20. Mulvey and Humber are back of the end rotation guys at best. And, Guerra? So green! 89 innings of high A ball, where he was less than stellar in 20 game starts with 2-6 record with a 4.01 er

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Re: Santana

Post  RedMagma on Thu Jan 10, 2008 9:03 am

You have to be a Yankee’s or Sox fan.
I don’t usually pass judgement on a poster as there are reasons to not trade for Santana that are legitimate but….
Take that back you have to be a Yankee’s or Braves fan because only they would say “SIGN BLANTON” as he is unsignable.



As long as it appears neither the Red Sox or Yankees are going to cave in and sweeten their packages, then I agree with Omar holding the line at where it is. I’m sure if Smith is ready to accept either the Red Sox or Yankee package he will give other parties the chance to up their offers, and Omar can always add in F-Mart then. For now, the course Omar is taking is the right one.

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Re: Santana

Post  RedMagma on Thu Jan 10, 2008 9:04 am

Forget Santana.. Go after Freddy Garcia , Colon or trade for Blanton. Do it Omar.

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Re: Santana

Post  RedMagma on Thu Jan 10, 2008 9:04 am

According to the Houston Chronicle, the Astros have signed J.R. House, Lance Niekro, Victor Diaz, Mike DeJean and Carlos Hines to minor league contracts with invites to spring training.

House returns to the organization after spending a year with the Orioles and would make a perfect bench bat. Niekro and Diaz are similar players whose stocks have fallen of late and there seemingly isn't much room for them in the Astros' plans.


astros sign Diaz and former mets ACE reliever Mike Dejean - combine that with Kaz - they're going all the way.

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Re: Santana

Post  RedMagma on Thu Jan 10, 2008 9:05 am

fonzy1324 wrote:
John Rocker Battery Night wrote:
Guerra, Humber, Mulvey, Gomez AND Fernando?!?

But all the Yanks have to give is Hughes and Melky Rolling Eyes


ummm... wouldn't he be on the Yankees now if that's all they had to give?


exactly, and if the mets wanted him all they would have to give up is what was reported? Sorry, but that's just Minnesota posturing. If omar wanted to give that up, Santana would be a Met today.

Interesting note......I got a call yesterday asking if I'd be renewing my seats. haven't gotten one of those since the 2003 season when I said I'd wait until I saw what the Mets did with Vlad. The collapse of 2007 and the 20% price hike has impacted season ticket sales. And with people knowing that another 20-255 price hike is coming for 2009, many are not renewing. A field level seat has gone from $3K to $4.5K in two years, and next year it'll go to $5.5-6K per seat.

With those prices, the mets know they cannot rely on the nostalgia of Shea's last season, or the excitement of the new stadium alone to bolster ticket sales. They need to put a winning product on the field.

I say they are going to trade the farm to win now with this group.

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Re: Santana

Post  RedMagma on Thu Jan 10, 2008 9:06 am

heres the post you wanted mh,

january 7th 9:44 am

no one talking anymore? any news guys?

ok lets review these offers…

lester lowrie masterson crisp
ellsbury lowrie masterson 4th player
hughes cabrera marquez hilligoss
martinez gomez guerra mulvey*

* not a offer that has been confirmed

ok so. hughes compares to both lester and ellbury.. cabrera IS better then crisp or ellsbury. marquez is better the masterson and hilligoss matches more of what we need for infield help then lowrie.
so between yankees or mets…

cabrera matches gomez cabrera matches martinez marquez is very simmilar to marquez if maybe a toss up on the guerra side.. and mulvey is close to hilligoss.

looking at that i would take either offer
mets or yankees

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Re: Santana

Post  RedMagma on Thu Jan 10, 2008 9:07 am

I'd be happy for the Mets if they got Johan, because then they would have nearly no farm system. I don't really know if this 4 player deal is better than the Yankees or Red Sox deals, Mulvey looks at best a #3 innings eater, Humber didn't impress me when I saw his MLB game, Carlos Gomez is probably gonna be really good and would fit into the Twins lineup perfectly, and finally Geurra is so young that there is probably alot to be excited about with him, but so far at least stat wise there is nothing special about him. I think both the other deals may have been better, but I don't really care, because at least we will still have King Phillip.

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Re: Santana

Post  RedMagma on Thu Jan 10, 2008 9:12 am

That loud farting noise is Tom talking out of his ass. Tampering rules in MLB are not public. You don't know for sure that the Twins need to complain for there to be an investigation.


If the Twins don't complain then how are Hank's comments given to Santana without the Twins' permission?



That loud farting noise is Tom talking out of his ass. Tampering rules in MLB are not public. You don't know for sure that the Twins need to complain for there to be an investigation.


Exactly. And once again, as has been stated upthread, just because they are not charged with tampering doesn't mean tampering did not occur. Hanky is talking about a player that is under contract to another team and is talking about what he might be willing to offer that player should he become a Yankee. If the Twinkies choose not to file a charge with the league, so be it. But it still doesn't change the fact that some form of tampering occurred. Is it really that hard to understand


I guess the thing I find most confusing about this statement is that while it is tampering (IMO) it seems like it directly hurts the Yankees chances. Santana wants 7 years. Coming out and saying "5 years, Max!" advertises that the Yankees are probably going to have a combative 3 day negotiation if they do get the parameters of a trade worked out. If the Yankees (or any team) fail to reach a deal, the Twins loose leverage and will wind up with less (even if "less" is only the next best offer on the table).

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Re: Santana

Post  RedMagma on Thu Jan 10, 2008 9:17 am

Well, it's a good way to get either the Yanks or Sox to do so. Three suitors is better than two. But, you're right, the Yanks would be more likely to try to match a Mets offer than the Sox although from what I've read the Yanks' principal interest is keeping Santana away from the Sox and vice versa. I think that both the Yanks and Sox would be OK in seeing Santana go the the Mets. I know I would be.

Like OCD, my favorite scenario would be Santana to the Mets and let our kids develop to beat the Yanks' kids. I also think that would be in the best interests of baseball. The NL is getting way too weak. It's up to the Mets (the NL's richest team) to up the ante over there.


I think Santana to the Mets would be the situation that would make everyone happy. All along we have heard rumblings about the Twins preferring to send Santana to the National League so that they do not have to face him very often. There has also been talk of the Yankees and Red Sox really not wanting the other one to get Santana, but not sure if they really want to pay $100+ million to a pitcher. Last, the Mets could obviously use an ace pitcher. Seems like it would be the best-case scenario

QUOTE(SouthPaw21 @ Jan 10 2008, 02:13 PM) *
I think Santana to the Mets would be the situation that would make everyone happy. All along we have heard rumblings about the Twins preferring to send Santana to the National League so that they do not have to face him very often. There has also been talk of the Yankees and Red Sox really not wanting the other one to get Santana, but not sure if they really want to pay $100+ million to a pitcher. Last, the Mets could obviously use an ace pitcher. Seems like it would be the best-case scenario.


When you say everyone I assume you mean everyone bar the Yanks? I still feel the Yanks are the team that need him of the Sox and Yanks, and I'm, personally, happy with either the kids or Santana - I'm not complaining either way. To see him in the NL is the safe option and the Mets need pitching. It's a good fit, if they can find the chips it's good for everyone bar the Yanks and I don't think it's a big negative for them, just not a positive. I suspect the fear of the Mets should have been eased by last years collapse, that's not the kind of thing bandwagon fans forget or get over. I think NY is safe unless the Mets win the NL, and only then. I doubt the yanks would be happy.


It's dragged on so long I'm skeptical whether the Red Sox or the Yankees really want to trade for Santana. They're probably secretly hoping that the Mets make the deal or the Twins decide to keep him


QUOTE(LondonSox @ Jan 10 2008, 10:47 AM) *
When you say everyone I assume you mean everyone bar the Yanks? I still feel the Yanks are the team that need him of the Sox and Yanks, and I'm, personally, happy with either the kids or Santana - I'm not complaining either way. To see him in the NL is the safe option and the Mets need pitching. It's a good fit, if they can find the chips it's good for everyone bar the Yanks and I don't think it's a big negative for them, just not a positive. I suspect the fear of the Mets should have been eased by last years collapse, that's not the kind of thing bandwagon fans forget or get over. I think NY is safe unless the Mets win the NL, and only then. I doubt the yanks would be happy.


I think you can include the Yanks in the happy camp if Santana goes to the Mets. It wouldn't help them from a "battle of New York" PR point of view, but Cashman is reportedly very happy with his young prospects and appears to be quite sure they have a potential ace in Hughes at the very least. Not to mention that the Yankees are already paying ridiculously high payroll taxes to MLB already; ponying up for yet another insane contract isn't going to make them happy, even if they are the Yankees and they can afford it.

The Mets are obviously the team with the absolute greatest need (that can afford Santana), especially considering how close they got in the last two seasons.







QUOTE(GriffinDoerr @ Jan 10 2008, 10:40 AM) *
I think you can include the Yanks in the happy camp if Santana goes to the Mets. It wouldn't help them from a "battle of New York" PR point of view, but Cashman is reportedly very happy with his young prospects and appears to be quite sure they have a potential ace in Hughes at the very least. Not to mention that the Yankees are already paying ridiculously high payroll taxes to MLB already; ponying up for yet another insane contract isn't going to make them happy, even if they are the Yankees and they can afford it.

The Mets are obviously the team with the absolute greatest need (that can afford Santana), especially considering how close they got in the last two seasons.

Based on his past statements, I think Cashman would be OK with not getting Santana, but Hank has mentioned that half the Yankees' staff wants to acquire him and half wants to stick with the young guys. So I suspect that the Yankees would probably be torn if Santana goes to the Mets.

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Re: Santana

Post  RedMagma on Thu Jan 10, 2008 9:18 am

AS GOOSE POSTS

a chiropractor fromn the joays says it aint so

and now rogers and yankee doc says it aint so

some good evidence coming out to support rog

1.) doctors expert opinions count and can not be undermined by any judge in court!!! daz a fact jack! mo? aint that so?

2.) with a name like ROCKET THE BEST, where are all the detractors saying IT is so...other than those self serving sob's trying to get something out of "throwing a fellow yank" under the bus...es[pecially when that yank? is not even around for 15 years....&*^%&*( THERE WOLF!

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Re: Santana

Post  RedMagma on Thu Jan 10, 2008 9:20 am

if they sign Lane and stick him in AAA, it’s a great signing.

he can play all 3 OF positions and some 1B.

he hit 26 HRs in the majors a few years ago. if one of the OFers got hurt, it would be great to have a real life major leaguer to fill in.

despite what this article says, i don’t think they are seriously considering him in the starting 1B mix.

he’d be a great AAA insurance/bench guy.

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Re: Santana

Post  RedMagma on Thu Jan 10, 2008 9:33 am

http://walterfootball.com/draft2008.php


6) New York Jets: Chris Long, DE, Virginia
The Jets are sitting in a pretty good position. It's unlikely that both Darren McFadden and Chris Long will both be picked in the top five. They can simply take the guy who drops to them. If they're both selected, New York will have to "settle" for Vernon Gholston. Oh, the horror.

With McFadden gone, Long is the obvious choice. Do I really have to delve into how horrendous the Jets' defense was this year? They were 29th against the run, managed just 29 sacks and couldn't force any turnovers. Howie's son is only the beginning of the solution.

36)

# New York Jets: Derrick Harvey, DE/OLB, Florida
Even in the wake of acquiring Chris Long in the first round, the Jets will need to make pressuring the quarterback their top priority here. Managing only 29 sacks in an entire season is ridiculous. Besides, I don't think they can pass on Derrick Harvey if he slips this far.


72)
New York Jets: Tony Hills, OT, Texas
Right tackle Anthony Clement has the pass-blocking ability of a turnstile. The Jets need a major upgrade there if they want to keep Kellen Clemens healthy

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Re: Santana

Post  RedMagma on Thu Jan 10, 2008 9:51 am

if the Mets make this deal, they should be renamed the Flushing Yankees, starting to become everything I’ve despised of that franchsie in the Bronx.




FROM TWINCITIES.COM:

CHARLEY WALTERS: MinnesotaTwins expect pitcher Johan Santana to be at spring training
Pioneer Press

Article Last Updated: 01/10/2008 05:33:44 AM CST

As of Wednesday, plans were still for pitcher Johan Santana to be in Fort Myers, Fla., on Feb. 18, reporting with the Twins for the start of spring training, Twins general manager Billy Smith said.

“He’s our Opening Day starter (against the Los Angeles Angels), and I like our chances to win,” Smith said.

Smith wouldn’t speculate on the chances of Santana being traded before then, but it’s clear that the Boston Red Sox, New York Yankees and New York Mets still hope to make a deal for the two-time Cy Young Award winner who can become a free agent after this season.

“I can’t predict the future,” Smith said.

Santana, meanwhile, doesn’t seem overly eager to learn where he’ll be pitching this year. He hasn’t called Smith to inquire about his status.


They really need to make this deal….The point is the players that there are asking for are not MAJOR LEAGUE READY so therefore we get to keep our MAJOR LEAGUE PLAYERS in exchange for a CY YOUNG AWARD WINNER MAJOR LEAGUE READY PITCHER—-Theres no doubt about it they have to pull the trigger….theres no telling if these kids are going to grow into a JOHAN SANTANA—were footsteps away from getting Johan—We need to do it—its a no brainer!

Include both F-Mart and Gomez! They are outfielders and a good outfielder can be had on the open market for money at any given time. Good pitching can no longer be had on the open market anymore. I prefer to retain some of our top pitching prospects then out top position prospects, even though they are not as highly regarded. F-Mart, Gomez and two pitchers not named (Guerra, Pelfry or Humber).

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Re: Santana

Post  RedMagma on Thu Jan 10, 2008 9:57 am

Santana’s asking price hasn’t changed
Thursday, January 10th, 2008

http://nc.startribune.com/blogs/christensen/

Last month, I wrote that the New York Mets were not to be taken seriously in the Johan Santana sweepstakes. A person with knowledge of the negotiations told me that Mets owner Fred Wilpon was against the idea of signing any pitcher to the kind of contract extension Santana is seeking.

A turning point came when Wilpon gave the green light to GM Omar Minaya. If Minaya swings the trade, as I wrote about today, Wilpon is confident he’ll get Santana signed. In the Mets’ camp, there is a belief that the price for Santana won’t be quite as high as advertised. Santana might ask for a six-year, $150 million extension, but there’s a belief teams could negotiate down from there.

I think that’s correct, but I don’t think it’s as simple as Hank Steinbrenner is making it sound. Earlier this week, he told Newsday: “I wouldn’t do it if it were a six- or seven-year contract. I wouldn’t go past five, on an extension.”

Perhaps the Yankees would try to entice Santana with five-year, $125 million offer — matching Santana’s yearly asking price but saving themselves one year. Maybe Santana would take that, although the Twins were left to believe he was very serious about holding a seven-year deal. He has one year remaining on his current contract and wants six more.

I think it’s a mistake for these teams to believe Santana’s price is coming down. And I think it’s a mistake to assume the Yankees wouldn’t give him a six-year extension. Keep in mind, Hank also said the Yankees absolutely wouldn’t have Alex Rodriguez back after he opted out of his contract. Until they did.

The Yankees said they absolutely wouldn’t give Jorge Posada a four-year deal. Until they did. And during the winter meetings, Hank said the Yankees absolutely, positively were pulling out of the Santana sweepstakes when the Twins didn’t meet their deadline.

Five weeks later, here we are.








Dan Serafini's Syringe says:

January 10th, 2008 at 10:13 am

Joe, you getting any indication the Angels are still lurking? Several rumors from other newspapers indicate the Angels are still a factor, but I can’t remember you or LEN III ever indicating such a thing.

liondragon says:

January 10th, 2008 at 10:24 am

thanks for the update joe.

lets take a mets deal and run with it! just try and get pelfrey instead of humber
tell them that if they dont want to give in reyes then we want the 2 outfielders with pelfrey.

santana for gomez martinez pelfrey mulvey guerra. DO IT! and run!

gobbledygookguy says:

January 10th, 2008 at 10:27 am

i’ve liked the mets for a while but think we have to get both gomez and martinez even if we need to add a couple lower level prospects to santana. it seems like the pitchers are fairly interchangable and none are a sure thing. if gomez and martinez need more time we could sign lofton for a yr.
it would seem johan would be a long term cy young canidate in the nl. his #’s could be out of sight with no dh in the weaker hitting nl. pitching for the mets with another 5-6 very good years and a couple more cy’s would almost be a lock for the hof.
still a few if’s however.

dan says:

January 10th, 2008 at 10:29 am

please dont trade with the mets, their prospects cant even light a candle to the red sox, even with martinez, the ellsbury package is better. call the red sox tell them to throw in bowden, sign colon, benson, or even roger clemens. just get a lead off hitter. the mets arent offering any thing offensively for now, and thats what they so deprately need.

Robert says:

January 10th, 2008 at 10:36 am

Nathan to the Cubs for Pie and Santana to the Mets for F-Mart et. al. Perfect!

notsane says:

January 10th, 2008 at 10:37 am

nice post liondragon.

I agree, DO IT!

liondragon says:

January 10th, 2008 at 10:54 am

then trade nathan for vitters from the cubs with marmol.

Todd Anthony says:

January 10th, 2008 at 10:54 am

More hyperbole from Hammerin’ Hank Steinbrenner:

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/yankees/2008/01/10/2008-01-10_yankees_may_give_up_on_johan_santana-2.html

Yankees may give up on Johan Santana

BY PETER BOTTE
DAILY NEWS SPORTS WRITER

Thursday, January 10th 2008, 4:00 AM

Brian Cashman has remained protective of the Yankees’ assembled prospects, while Hal Steinbrenner has been equally shielding of the team’s finances.

Hank Steinbrenner? That’s been another story for much of the winter.

But while stressing there is “absolutely nothing new” in terms of recent trade discussions with the Twins, Hank is beginning to sound convinced - if not nearly ready - to walk away from any potential blockbuster deal for Johan Santana.

“We went into this with me making the final baseball decisions and Hal more addressing the financial aspects of the company, but we both do everything,” Steinbrenner said yesterday in a phone interview. “We’re equal partners, but at this point, to tell you the truth, I’m leaning away from it anyway, so it doesn’t matter. Same thing with Brian, he’s another integral part of it, obviously, being the general manager, and one day he’s leaning to do it and the next day he’s not sure.

“But what it comes down to right now is giving up a lot (in a trade) and then having to do the big contract, as well. If (Santana) was just a free agent, we could just go ahead and do it. There’s a big difference this way. We have to sign him as if he’s a free agent, plus you have to give up major talent. That’s a tall order.”

The Yanks and Twins had discussed a deal that would have sent frontline pitching prospect Phil Hughes, outfielder Melky Cabrera and two mid-level prospects to Minnesota for Santana, a two-time Cy Young winner who reportedly will seek a seven-year extension worth around $140 million.

“I don’t know what he’d even want, or what they’d settle for. I don’t know. We obviously haven’t talked to him or his agent, so I have no idea,” Steinbrenner said. “But a six- or seven-year extension, no, I wouldn’t do that.”

Steinbrenner added that opinions offered by several unspecified Yankees “during the course of conversation” in recent weeks have contributed to his change of heart.

“I’m growing more and more comfortable with what we have, and the veteran players I’ve talked to seem to be pretty comfortable with what we have. But we’ll see what happens,” said Steinbrenner, who reiterated that the plan is to shift Joba Chamberlain into the starting rotation. “I’m hoping we’ll be set to go (to spring training).

“The big thing, as far as questions, is the bullpen and we’ll see how that shakes out, but at this point, I want Chamberlain as a starter and not using someone of his ability in a setup role. We did that last year, but that was different. He was a rookie. But you don’t do that.

“Setup guys are important, extremely important, but you have a guy of that ability, who our baseball people think either can be a top starting pitcher or a top closer. It’s going to be up to Brian to plug that hole in the bullpen, if there is one, if we’re not going to get Santana

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Re: Santana

Post  RedMagma on Thu Jan 10, 2008 10:06 am

Twins name the prospects you want give mets Santana
WrightMVP2525 Post #1: Jan 09, 8:41 pm Quote | Report Violation
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Twins lets get serious, Omar have said you can pick any of our four prospects FMart Gomez Pelfrey Guiella and Hubner and hell you can even have Heilman

To mets

Santana

Lets get it done
MNRunLeft Post #2: Jan 09, 9:03 pm Quote | Report Violation
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If the Mets offered Martinez, Gomez, Mulvey and Guiella I think the Twins should take the deal.
WrightMVP2525 Post #3: Jan 09, 9:13 pm Quote | Report Violation
Total Posts: 53


Mets will give you prospects

Here the deal to make happen

Gomez your centerfielder

Heilman late innings bullpen

Pelfrey MLB ready

Guilla 18 year has nasty curveball and his velocity is over 90

Fernando Martinez projected to be 5 tool player

Hubner another arm to solidy your rotation

To the Mets

Santana

Fair trade on both sides you get your centerfielder and pitcher who has ace talent and will work well in your oraganization .

Make it happen
WrightMVP2525 Post #4: Jan 09, 9:14 pm Quote | Report Violation
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Hell we even throw in Mulvey

Now that should get it done




IAsportsfan Post #5: Jan 09, 9:41 pm Quote | Report Violation
Total Posts: 102
Carlos Gomez (could be decent if put into lineup now, but would do better with another year in AAA, or at least half a year. Sign Kenny Lofton to a 1-year deal).

Kevin Mulvey (same, situation as Gomez, looking more like a September call up than an opening day roster member. Decent pitching prospect, but we have a dozen of them, at least four of which are better than Mulvey).

Fernando Martinez (will be a stud, but not for 2-3 years. If we decide to take this package, we will have to fully commit to not competing until 2010).

Deolis Guerra (same as Martinez, probably won't be ready for a solid 3-3 and a half years, but a good looking prospect).


It's either this and keep Santana out of the AL, or get a true stud type who is ready like a Hughes or an Ellsbury. Decisions, decisions.
soopadrive Post #6: Jan 09, 10:03 pm Quote | Report Violation
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I think I'm rooting for a Mets deal.
If it happens, all I have to say is 2010, here we come!
twinsfanstreif Post #7: 12:16 am Quote | Report Violation
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I'll take Gomez, F-mart, Maine, Pelfrey/Guiella/Heilman. for me maine would have to be part of this so that we could compete this year and have at least 1 proven guy. I don't see Pelfrey or Humber being a solution at least this year with their 5.57 and 7.71 ERA last year in the national league. I would love to send santana to the national league rather than the other 2(I'm sick of hearing their names so I won't mention it)
cjr690 Post #8: 9:50 am Quote | Report Violation
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According to people with knowledge of the discussions, the Mets have offered top pitching prospect Deolis Guerra, along with center fielder Carlos Gomez and pitchers Kevin Mulvey and Phil Humber.

The Twins like those players. They've told the Mets they'd have a done deal if New York would add prized outfield prospect Fernando Martinez.

http://www.startribune.com/sports/twins/13627791.html

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Re: Santana

Post  RedMagma on Thu Jan 10, 2008 10:10 am

Forget about the cash and the prospects for a just a moment. I think we're somewhat losing sight of what his addition would mean to this team. Think about watching a rotation of Beckett-Santana-Schilling-Matsuzaka-Buchholz this season. Think about the postseason potential of that rotation. We're not just talking about potentially having a solid rotation, we're talking about potentially one of the best in the history of the franchise. I'm greedy. There may well be a chance that this team can repeat without Santana, with essentially the same cast as last year, but their chances get a hell of a lot better adding another ace to the staff. It's like adding Walton to Bird-McHale-Parish-DJ-Ainge, only better. You're taking a championship-caliber club and making them potentially one for the ages. It's what we're watching in Foxboro. Damn, if this club can win another title or two in the next few seasons, and we're viewing 2004 and 2007 as just the beginning...how much better can it get? Johan Santana goes a long way in helping make that a reality. Johan going to the Mets won't make me happy. It's not about keeping him away from the Yankees to me, it's about adding him to a championship team and making them favorites to repeat.

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Re: Santana

Post  RedMagma on Thu Jan 10, 2008 10:12 am



http://keephughes.blogspot.com/2008/01/sounds-like-hankenstein-may-have.html


Thursday, January 10, 2008
Sounds like Hankenstein may have finally gotten my memo

From "Yankees may give up on Johan Santana" [NY Daily News] -

"Steinbrenner added that opinions offered by several unspecified Yankees during the course of conversation in recent weeks have contributed to his change of heart.

'I'm growing more and more comfortable with what we have, and the veteran players I've talked to seem to be pretty comfortable with what we have. But we'll see what happens,' said Steinbrenner."

Listen up, Hank. You're happy with what we have? I'm a rabid die-hard Yankee fan, and I am absolutely unabashedly fucking elated at what we have.

Just check out our starting rotation once someone wises up and demotes Moose to AA:

Wang
Pettitte
Hughes
Chamberlain
Kennedy

All homegrown, biatch. When the hell was the last time the Yanks had an all-homegrown rotation? I'm guessing the answer is right around never.

Sit back, relax and get ready to drool, Yankee fans.

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