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Re: Santana

Post  RedMagma on Thu Jan 10, 2008 5:08 am

A look at Darnell Bing
The Jets continue to soak up some depth players.

The Jets signed two players, Guard Stanley Daniels (who saw time with the Jets shortly last summer) but more notably Darnell Bing, a name you might remember from the BCS Championship contending USC Trojans (2003-2005) earning many honors, most notably becoming a finalist for the Jim Thorpe award. Bing wore #20, a retired uniform number at USC with the permission of Mike Garrett the former Heisman winner from USC. As a junior in 2005, Bing started 11 games and finished with 50 tackles, 2.5 TFL, 6 PDs and 4 INT’s.

A likely Mangini project, Darnell Bing’s pro career hasn’t had the luster that he experienced in college. After falling to the Raiders in the 4th round, the Raiders tried to convert Bing to a LB, which didn’t work out, and he moved back to Safety. Shortly after, Bing’s neck was injured and he was put on IR, only to be released by the Raiders a year later. San Francisco then picked him up in hopes of utlizing him, and he spent the 2007 season on the practice squad.

Darnell Bing is known for his combination of size and speed as a safety. Here’s a quick comparison between him and Eric Smith (another 2006 draftee).

Darnell Bing — 6′2″ 227 lbs. 4.58 40-Time
Eric Smith — 6′1″ 209 lbs. 4.63 40-Time

Bing’s athletic ability made this pickup an easy decision, but like Abram Elam, he might not be the most mentally aware player on the field. As a safety scouts note that he can match up in the box, in deep-middle zone and versus some bigger receivers one-on-one. He would be at a loss in coverage against smaller, quicker receivers. My thought is that Bing could contribute on Special Teams if he makes the roster initially, but he might be fighting an uphill battle against Eric Smith, Abram Elam and Erik Coleman.

Here’s a list running down who the Jets have signed and been in contact (as best I can find) with since the end of the season.

Signed to Future Contracts: Alvin Banks (RB), David Clowney (WR), Manny Collins (DB), Jerry Mackey (LB), Brett Ratliff (QB), Shaine Smith (WR), Marco Thomas (WR), Wayne Hunter (OT), Thomas Johnson (DL)
Extended Contract: Joe Smith (RB)
Worked out: Trev Faulk (LB), Rian Wallace (LB), Alfred Fincher (LB), Wesley Duke (TE)

[Jets Ink Two Linemen]
[Jets Front Office on a Tear]
[Jets Sign Seven Players to Practice Squad Contracts]

Posted: January 10th, 2008 under Main Page, News.
Comments: 1
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Re: Santana

Post  RedMagma on Thu Jan 10, 2008 5:09 am

Bob Wischusen
Jets Offseason: Several Holes To Fill


Jan 09, 2008
The Jets have a lot of holes to fill.


They need another offensive tackle, probably another offensive guard. They need a defensive end/ linebacker to play outside in the 3-4 and a defensive tackle, too. They need another safety and another cornerback.

But they have a top pick and lots of money to spend.

They also have tradeable commodities in Chad Pennington and maybe even Jonathan Vilma should they hear an offer good enough regarding either.

It would be tough to lose those guys because they are both such quality people, but the Jets may have no choice.


Bob Wischusen
Jets Offseason: What To Do On Draft Day


Jan 09, 2008
Just because the Jets may miss out on Darren McFadden, that doesn't mean anything right now and may become a blessing down the road. You don't know and won't know for at least a few years. The point is that they will have just as good a chance to get a top player with the sixth pick.


Maybe they hope UVA defensive end Chris Long falls to them, or maybe Michigan offensive tackle Jake Long. Maybe if they have their heart set on one of those two players then they'll trade up as they did last year. Their work is really just beginning now with all the postseason All-Star games beginning.

One thing I would be fairly certain about though is that they're not going after a QB. To me, it's good news that as things stand now Mike Tannenbaum is planning on bringing back Chad Pennington. There's no problem with having two QB's and letting them fight it out.

There's competition at every other position in football, so why not have some competition and depth at QB too if you have the cap room to accommodate Pennington's salary? And the Jets have room.

Jets Offseason: Running Backs


Jan 09, 2008
It's being taken for granted in most circles that Darren McFadden of Arkansas is the next great back coming into the NFL, and the Jets wouldn't have been a lock to take him had they stayed in the third slot anyway.

Running backs are a volatile commodity, and are often highly overrated in terms of their long-term futures. Take a look at the 2006 Draft now after two seasons have gone by.


Remember the reaction to Houston bypassing Reggie Bush and taking Mario Williams with the top overall pick? Remember the columnists and talk show hosts lining up to call it one of the great drafting disasters of all time? Before either kid had played a down of pro football, this was the dumbest drafting mistake ever made!

Let's look at it today. Reggie Bush, at this point, can be characterized as a nice player. He had just under 1,000 yards of total offense and scored six touchdowns this past season. He has not become the game changing superstar that many took for granted he would become ... yet. That's not to say that he won't, because he has a world of talent, but in this league you have to wait and see.

And if only all those prognosticators wouldn't have rushed to judgment about Mario Williams and waited to see how these players developed. Maybe then they wouldn't look quite so dumb only two years into their analysis when Williams finished the 2007 regular season tied for third in the NFL with 14 sacks. A better way to put it: would the Saints trade Reggie Bush straight up today for Mario Williams? I bet they would.

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Re: Santana

Post  RedMagma on Thu Jan 10, 2008 5:10 am

"Adam Schefter of the NFL Network reports that the New York Jets interviewed former Nebraska coach Bill Callahan for their vacant offensive line coach position.

Callahan, who was fired after a tough year at Nebraska, is still plenty respected in the NFL from his days as head coach of the Raiders team that went to the Super Bowl in 2002. He earned a reputation as an offensive mastermind in Oakland, and his arrival in New York would likely help the Jets improve their running game."

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Re: Santana

Post  RedMagma on Thu Jan 10, 2008 5:11 am

http://www.nydailynews.com/blogs/jet...xnebraska.html

Quote:
January 9, 2008
Mangini interviews ex-Nebraska coach Bill Callahan

Eric Mangini interviewed former Nebraska coach Bill Callahan for an unspecified position on the Jets’ coaching staff, according to the NFL Network and ESPN.com.

There were rumblings a few days ago that Mangini was looking for a “running-game coordinator,” an assistant to complement offensive coordinator Brian Schottenheimer, and Callahan seems to fit the bill. In his days with the Raiders, where he served as the head coach in 2002 and 2003, he was known as a running-game guru.

Callahan’s area of expertise is the offensive line, and it’s quite possible he also was interviewed for that job. Right now, the Jets have two line coaches, Tony Wise and Mike Devlin, but I heard a few weeks ago that both were in trouble. Wise reportedly is a candidate for the offensive-line position at Pitt.

Callahan also could emerge as a candidate for a spot on Jon Gruden’s staff. In that case, he’d probably go to Tampa to be reunited with Gruden, his old boss in Oakland. Gruden soon could be in the market for a line coach (former Jets assistant Bill Muir is rumored to be on Bill Parcells’ radar in Miami) and a running backs coach.

If Mangini does hire a running-game coordinator, it certainly would raise questions about his level of confidence in Schottenheimer. For the second straight year, the Jets’ running game was a disappointment.

By Rich Cimini on January 9, 2008 11:53 PM | Permalink | Comments (0)
Here it is from Rich's mouth. I can't stand Callahan, for whatever that is worth.

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Re: Santana

Post  RedMagma on Thu Jan 10, 2008 5:15 am

There's a rumor that Billy Beane will trade Huston Street for Coco Crisp? As a A's Fan, I hope this trade doesn't happen. Fire Billy Beane, If this happen.



…additionally, the buzz from boston suggests that the Red Sox continue to explore a deal that will bring them a significant set-up man, which will likely cost them one of the players needed to get santana…initially, i assumed they would target A’s RHP Huston Street, while using Coco Crisp, who Billy Beane is quite fond of, according to Peter Gammons…however, and this is total speculation, but i wonder if all the talk between the Red Sox and Twins is more about Joe Nathan than santana…just a thought…

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Re: Santana

Post  RedMagma on Thu Jan 10, 2008 5:19 am

There's a rumor that Billy Beane will trade Huston Street for Coco Crisp? As a A's Fan, I hope this trade doesn't happen. Fire Billy Beane, If this happen.



…additionally, the buzz from boston suggests that the Red Sox continue to explore a deal that will bring them a significant set-up man, which will likely cost them one of the players needed to get santana…initially, i assumed they would target A’s RHP Huston Street, while using Coco Crisp, who Billy Beane is quite fond of, according to Peter Gammons…however, and this is total speculation,

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Re: Santana

Post  RedMagma on Thu Jan 10, 2008 5:20 am

Jan 10, 2008 7:02 am - Buzz: Yankees Leaning Away from Santana


http://www.metsblog.com/



...posted by Matthew Cerrone...

According to the Daily News, Hank Steinbrenner said he is ‘leaning away’ from trading for Johan Santana.

Multiple reports over the last few weeks have written that while Yankees GM Brian Cashman and Hal Steinbrenner have been against acquiring Santana, Hank Steinbrenner had been on the fence.

The thing is, as noted yesterday by Peter Abraham at his blog for the Journal News, Hank and Hal have equal power – despite Hank’s overt presence in the media.

Steinbrenner, as quoted by the Daily News…

“I’m growing more and more comfortable with what we have, and the veteran players I’ve talked to seem to be pretty comfortable with what we have. But we’ll see what happens.”

…additionally, the buzz from boston suggests that the Red Sox continue to explore a deal that will bring them a significant set-up man, which will likely cost them one of the players needed to get santana…initially, i assumed they would target A’s RHP Huston Street, while using Coco Crisp, who Billy Beane is quite fond of, according to Peter Gammons…however, and this is total speculation, but i wonder if all the talk between the Red Sox and Twins is more about Joe Nathan than santana…just a thought

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Re: Santana

Post  RedMagma on Thu Jan 10, 2008 5:21 am

Everyone out here who favors this trade is talking about Santana as the savior of this team for the next 5-7 years. What if he develops arm problems? What happens then? You see what happened last year with Pedro, we struggled in the end. If you had Pedro for the last part of the year in good health do you think we would have stumbled so badly?

And remember, last year was the first year that Johnny Maine logged some extensive innings and we saw him drop off quickly in the end. We do not know if he will be able to handle that many innings, my guess is he will but you never know.

Pitchers hurting their arms are the single biggest reason why I do not want do this deal. Santana has logged some major innings and he may not be one of those guys who it effects right away but what if it affects him 10 starts into the season. Is he worth your whole farm system then? Just a point to consider




I’m honestly disgusted at this! PLEASE JUST DO IT AND GET IT OVER WITH!!!! WE NEED A WORLD SERIES AND SANTANA IS THE ONLY WAY!!!! PLEASE!!!!

I’M ON MY KNEES AND BEGGING OMAR!!!!

IF ANYONE WHO READS THIS ACTUALLY KNOWS OMAR….PLEASE TELL HIM THIS





It’s too much. The “prospects are prospects” argument proves too much; with that logic, you’d be willing to trade 40 prospects for Santana. You have to draw a line at how much you’re going to give up, even if they are prospects.

I don’t know if anyone’s done a study of 5-for-1 deals (like the Von Hayes deal). I would guess that 5-for-1 deals, where the “1″ is a pitcher, have not been great successes. And contracts for pitchers for more than 5 years have not been successes.

Look at what the the A’s got back for Haren. Granted, Haren is not as good as Santana, but what the A’s got for him is weak compared to the 5 being proposed for Santana. If we’re going to give up those 5, then we need to get back something valuable in addition to Santana.

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Re: Santana

Post  RedMagma on Thu Jan 10, 2008 5:21 am

Tough decision Omar has on his desk.

I will gladly ship Mulvey, Humber,and Gomez in that deal.

The fact that they even are taking Humber is comical. Hes horrible.
Unlike with L Millz, the Mets would be selling high on Gomez. Which is another positive.
Mulvey at best is a 4 starter so no loss of sleep there.

It comes down to Guerrera and Fmart.

If I were Omar I probably would not do the deal if I have to include Fmart along with Guerrera.

I would rather give them Guerrera because we would have Johan, Olly, Maine, and Pelfrey for the next 5+yrs. Thats an exceptional NL rotation.

If Fmart turns out to be legit then we would have Reyes, Wright, FMart, and Beltran as our core hitters.

Thats a very nice balance if you ask me.

I rather take the chance on Fmart than Guerrera.

Now,If Minn wants both then I dont think Omar can make that deal. Im all for Johan but not at the expense of both Guerrera and Fmart.
IMO, the only 3 guys that have a shot of being quality ball players are Fmart,Guerrera, and Pelfrey….the other 3 I will drive to any airport to complete a solid deal.

The fact that we possibly can keep Pelfrey and Fmart and still land Johan is making me excited.

And another thing…..Stop saying we can trade El Duque for prospects. El Duque is a solid piece to this team. He will be valuable come post season in the rotation or in the pen. You dont trade a guy like that. Plus you will not get any prospects back on the fmart, Guerrera, Pelfrey level.

I like the fact that we have 3 1st round picks this yr. That will help out the system

In conclusion:
If we can land Johan for Gomez, Humber,Mulvey, and Guerrera its a NO BRAINER

If they want Fmart added to that deal I would tell Minn to go get themselves Melky Cabrera!

I knew all along the Mets will have a solid shot at Johan because they are the most willing to give up descent prospects.

If we land Johan and keep Pelfrey and Fmart, then Omar wins GM of the yr before the season even begins

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Re: Santana

Post  RedMagma on Thu Jan 10, 2008 5:24 am

http://www.startribune.com/sports/twins/13627791.html

In the article it says we offered phil hughes

"The Yankees have offered one of the game's top pitching prospects in Phil Hughes. Beyond him, however, the Twins aren't so sure."

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Re: Santana

Post  RedMagma on Thu Jan 10, 2008 5:25 am

"at this point, to tell you the truth, I'm leaning away from it anyway,"

Wasn't it like 2 days ago in which he said he was leaning for it?

is he gonna change his mind through the media tommorow too?

make up your mind, mouth.

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Re: Santana

Post  RedMagma on Thu Jan 10, 2008 5:28 am

Go M's!! I hope that they get Bedard. PITCHING-PITCHING-PITCHIN
G! It is afterall Safeco field. It's a pitchers park so better get the pitchers.
marinersarethebest
1/9/2008
10:42 PM (report inappropriate content)

GO MARINERS THEY ARE GONNA WIN IT ALL THIS YEAR!!!!!
cessnapilot40
1/9/2008
10:32 PM (report inappropriate content)

Woodward I think is his name........
cessnapilot40
1/9/2008
10:29 PM (report inappropriate content)

We then had that other jerk of a GM, Which I Can't remember his name. He just about killed the Mariners before he was replaced.
RedSoxSoCalNation
1/9/2008
10:23 PM (report inappropriate content)

Actually, the Sox got Derek Lowe and Jason Veritek for Heathcliff Slocumb...Great trade
Sef619
1/9/2008
10:17 PM (report inappropriate content)

What's the matter,Antimet? Out of butt-plugs?You from Atlanta?Either way,shut your BLEEP hole,BLEEP .
busa89 This user has a blog
1/9/2008
9:44 PM (report inappropriate content)

Bavasi please dont send Jones to the A's. dont want to see jones kicking our butts in the future. send him out east to the o's so we dont see him as often
cessnapilot40
1/9/2008
9:14 PM (report inappropriate content)

Yea and we had A-Rod for 4 years and he left for the money. Jones has not developed yet so lets try and get some good pitching for him, we have a great outfield now. Wladimir Balentien will be good in his place. I think he hits more for power than Jones.
Doctorwrites This user has a blog
1/9/2008
9:13 PM (report inappropriate content)

Oh yes, Heathcliff Slocumb. It's all coming back now.
MARINERS
1/9/2008
9:07 PM (report inappropriate content)

Heathcliff Slocumb
Doctorwrites This user has a blog
1/9/2008
8:59 PM (report inappropriate content)

I would hate to lose Adam Jones, but there is just so much starting pitching out there that even the mediocre ones are getting 50 mil (Gil Meche anyone?) Besides, the M's still have Ichiro in center which should be OK for a couple of more years. But the last time the M's traded a highly touted young prospect, it was Jason Varitek for some sore-armed has been. Remember that pitcher? I don't either.
Penzphan
1/9/2008
8:53 PM (report inappropriate content)

Well, it looks more and more like Erik might be leaving. I actually would hate to see him go, but watching his interviews leads me to believe he doesn't really care for Baltimore, and since he is an excellent starter he will bring a sound game to his new team and decent prospects to his old one. I really believe in MacPhail, and it appears that Mr Angelos has given him the reins. Good luck, Erik, if ya go, and either way, Go O's!
cessnapilot40
1/9/2008
8:52 PM (report inappropriate content)

They can't give Jone to two different clubs, but know Bavasi he will go after Blanton. Hope he does the right thing and get Bedard! be sorry to see George Sherrill go but Morrow can fill in his place very well!
cessnapilot40
1/9/2008
8:46 PM (report inappropriate content)

Sounds like Bavasi is finaly going to get something right! Felix, Miguel and Jarrod will have some good starting pitchers to help them.
MARINERS
1/9/2008
8:36 PM (report inappropriate content)

That would be a bad trade for the Mariners (blanton for jones). Blanton is pretty good but he is not at the level that bedard is at. It sounds like the Mariners will get bedard anyway. Hopefully we dont have to give up too much.
raider_ron
1/9/2008
8:21 PM (report inappropriate content)

I would trade Blanton for A. Jones. Sounds like he can become a solid to star type centerfielder
Ravenattack This user has posted to their blog within the last day
1/9/2008
7:11 PM (report inappropriate content)

Trading Bedard ( who does not want to sign a long term deal ) and Roberts ( Angelos' little step son ) are the two best things this organization can do.

Do you want people who don't want to be here?

Peter Angelos loves B-Rob. B-Rob will now be in Chicago by this weekend. Why?

Because he is 30 and lied to the Chief.

Bedard will be in Seattle by Sunday. Thank god! I want an outfield with Adam Jones and Nick Markakis as our cornerstones.

Add a Billy Rowell and a catcher from Georgia Tech ( who Andy saved from going back into the draft )with here a player, there a player, home run home run!

Look I know this year and next are going to be tough, but after nine such seasons of tough, what's another two to asure your fans that we will be back in 2010.

Next stop, bring back the " Baltimore " on the road jersey.
MARINERS
1/9/2008
6:54 PM (report inappropriate content)

GO MARINERS!!!
DashwoodClipper
1/9/2008
6:50 PM (report inappropriate content)

Orioles will never be competitive again with that knob Angelos at the helm, too bad for a once proud and competitive franchise
XavierDraven23
1/9/2008
6:47 PM (report inappropriate content)

A team willing to deal top prospects/young players for Bedard?

About time.

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Re: Santana

Post  RedMagma on Thu Jan 10, 2008 5:30 am

M’s Getting Closer?


http://prospectinsider.com/

By Jason A. Churchill on January 7th, 2008

Dave Cameron at USSMariner puts this in the perfect perspective in regards to Erik Bedard and Adam Jones. His latest piece seen here explains why the Mariners shouldn’t even trade Jones for Bedard straight up.

I have it on pretty good authority that the Seattle Mariners and Baltimore Orioles may very well be making significant progress on a trade involving left-hander Erik Bedard.

Unfortunately, if you are an M’s fan, the word is that the Mariners may agree to include Carlos Triunfel in a deal along with Adam Jones, and perhaps one other player (George Sherrill, most likely), due to their stance on trading Brandon Morrow.

I did not get this info from a source directly involved in the talks, but it was relayed to me through a mutual source of one more directly involved.

If the Mariners send Jones, Triunfel and Sherrill to Baltimore and the return is simply Erik Bedard without Brian Roberts or other valuable pieces, the Soriano-Ramirez trade will be buried by this monster of a mistake.

Protecting Morrow as if he’s a sure thing is ridiculous. Refusing to include him in the deal as if he’s got a good chance to be a frontline starter in 2008 is irresponsible.

But, what else is new? This is not a smart baseball team and this would be yet another blunder as they continue to believe they were an 88-win team last year and are building on the team as a result.

Updates coming as I get them, and I’m already making calls to scouts to get reactions to such a deal, should it go through.

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Re: Santana

Post  RedMagma on Thu Jan 10, 2008 5:31 am

ere’s how I’d counter that, Dog, and I know you were just playing DA.

- Ichiro won’t be playing center field in six years.

- He’s not THAT less valuable, because if he’s put in left field where he belongs, he covers nearly as much ground as there is to cover in center field at Camden, for example.

- Trading Triunfel isn’t tragic. The package is.

- But those draft picks won’t be top 15.

- It’s difficult to replace the Jones-Clement types, because there isn’t much risk in them anymore. They are almost certain to contribute regularly in the bigs. With draftees and Latin signings, they are years away and loaded with risk.

- Again, Sherril is expendable. It’s the package and lack of return that sucks.

The argument the M’s are using internally is centered around job security (Bavasi, Lincoln) and making the owners, and therefore Lincoln, too, money by deceiving fans into buying season tickets to a “winner.”
17
Jason A. Churchill says:
January 8th, 2008 at 5:48 am

Also, if Jones is traded, they almost have to use to Raul and Balentien in the corners.

Not a good defensive set, though Wlad isn’t terrible.
18
Jason A. Churchill says:
January 8th, 2008 at 9:44 am

Remember back a year or so ago when I’d defend Bill Bavasi’s abilities to evaluate talent and that the moves he’d made to that point didn’t reflect his own actual ability to do the job?

Well, I still believe that’s true, but there is one area of being a GM that he has the least of in all of sports - maybe ever.

Balls.

If you’re the GM of any professional sports team and your CEO/Team President mandates a certain manner in which you acquire players and a certain philosophy in which the personnel is run, and you don’t agree, at some point you have to stand up and tell the boss no.

If it costs you your job then I guess you’ll sit out for a year and get paid anyway.

I’m not going to sit here and claim that Bavasi has not fought Lincoln on the whole “win now, put butts in seats” philosophy, but he obviously hasn’t fought hard enough, and that alone makes him a terrible GM.

It has nothing to do with being bad at evaluating talent, especially because that’s not the case (since he relies heavily on Fontaine, and we know he’s good at his job) and it has nothing to do with Bavasi having his own terrible philosophy on how to build a baseball team.

Grow some nads, Bill, and tell anyone who disagrees that you simply do not want any part of trading the farm for two years of a No. 2 starter that may or may not be here in two years and may or may not be able to repeat his career season in which he still didn’t make a full allotment of start.

Prior to the trade deadline in 2006, I wrote very strong words about the fact that many of Bavasi’s moves up to that point had been either mandated specifically (extending Raul before they should have, trading Guillen for nothing) and that the suits demand that the current roster is always the very best it possibly can be to win that year without much regard, if any at all, to the following seasons.

All still true.

But, at what point does that big gigantic caveat get thrown out the window and Bavasi get lit up like a Christmas tree?

A year ago is when he ran out of rope. The Rafael Soriano deal was horrific.

The Jose Vidro deal was horrendous.

Bill Bavasi, without question, has very little power within the organization, and I’m not alone in thinking so.

“I’d say he has less power than any GM out there,” said one rival front office executive. “I don’t think there’s any doubt about it.”

Bavasi might be a horrible GM, that is very possible. But we’ll never know, because unlike the vast majority of the financially competitive clubs in baseball, Seattle doesn’t let their baseball people take care of the baseball stuff.

So, whether Bavasi makes this potentially stupid move by sending far too much talent to Baltimore for Erik Bedard or not, many will be, if they haven’t been already, calling for Bavasi’s head.

But until Howard Lincoln and everyone around him is removed, it doesn’t matter who the GM is. It will always be the same BS.
19
PositivePaul says:
January 8th, 2008 at 11:14 am

If you’re the GM of any professional sports team and your CEO/Team President mandates a certain manner in which you acquire players and a certain philosophy in which the personnel is run, and you don’t agree, at some point you have to stand up and tell the boss no.

Aren’t there some scouts somewhere that they can tell Bavasi to fire? He’s been given the order to purge before, and didn’t like it and resigned. Does quitting back then equate to having cojones??

AFAIK — his “Yesmanship” makes him equally guilty for this mess with CHowArmLinStrong…
20
Jason A. Churchill says:
January 8th, 2008 at 1:56 pm

They would have canned him if he didn’t resign, so no.
21
Lance says:
January 8th, 2008 at 2:42 pm

Mentioning a potential Bedard-to-Seattle deal Ken Rosenthal said the Mariners would like to send Tuiasosopo in the deal but that the O’s may require Triunfel instead, with another high-level pitching prospect in the deal such as Tillman or Butler if Morrow isn’t included.

Jason, if Bavasi can get MacPhail to accept Tui instead how happy should we all be?
22
Jason A. Churchill says:
January 8th, 2008 at 2:51 pm

We shouldn’t be.

Not in my opinion. I’ll say this again, if it was up to me, I wouldn’t trade Jones for Bedard straight up.

If this were Johan Santana with two years of control left, that’s a different story.

But pitchers are such a risky, volatile bunch, that I think the Mariners are playing with fire with a guy like Bedard.
23
Edtrak says:
January 8th, 2008 at 3:23 pm

I have to disagree. While I like Jones, we already have a CF for many years yet to come, so who cares if the have a guy who could be playing CF, in RF? I think Jones has a solid career ahead of him, but I wouldn’t say his ceiling is any higher than Balentien’s, in regard to what he’ll provide offensively, especially in regard to raw power.

Bottom line is, you’ve got to give, to get. This homegrown concept that Jones is the next coming of Griffey Jr. is just optimism. Yes, he’s more valuable as a CF to Baltimore than as a RF to Seattle. CF is a tough position to fill defensively.

That said, a rotation of Bedard, Hernandez, Batista, Washburn and Silva is perhaps the most solid 1-5 in the AL West. Two years of Bedard is worth Jones, IMHO.

Adding the other names is tough. But the idea that Jones is SO GOOD by himself, that he trumps having an potential ACE in the rotation, just isn’t valid, IMO.

Winners take chances, losers don’t make moves for fear of making the wrong move.
24
StandinPat says:
January 8th, 2008 at 4:07 pm

Ed, in the future you never have to start a post with “I have to disagree.” I think we all just pretty much assume that if your name is at the top.

Anyway, I agree with your last statement that winners take chances, but that chance still has to make some kind of sense. Taking a chance on signing Colon, or trading for Scott Olsen are two examples that come to mind. You are taking a chance that the player doesnt ever turn in to what you were looking for when you aquired them, but what you give up if they don’t pan out is so much easier to deal with.
25
shoe23 says:
January 8th, 2008 at 5:30 pm

The easiest way to look at this potential trade is wins and losses. I have no factual data to back this up, but I’ve seen USS mariner talk about a decent amount. How many more wins does Bedard give you next year over who we will be throwing out there right now. 6 - 9 is my best guess. Now assuming we are still an 88 win team, (which i think was a fluke), that puts us at best 97 wins this coming year. More likely scenario we are at 95 wins. Assuming the Angels hold at about the same amount of wins as last year, that puts us right in the race. That would be great. Now assume that Richie Sexon hits 35 hr’s this year. That would bump our win total by a few games. Things look even better. Now assume that Felix pitches like he’s capable of. Again even better.

Now think logically about baseball and realize that you can’t assume anything because it’s baseball. Hell, the Florida Marlins could pull another World Series out of their ass next year . You never know, thats why the game is so great. I like Jones as much if not more than most, and I think this is a terrible deal, but even if it gets done, we have Bedard who I really like as well.

Conclusion - No one knows how this will work out. Bedard could win a Cy young next year. Jones could end up being the next Arod. We don’t know and therefore can’t assume. Let things play out how they will and then even if we get completely hosed in the deal, at least we will get some new management.
26
edgar for mayor says:
January 8th, 2008 at 5:44 pm

Truinfel should be 100% UNTOUCHABLE…Why is our management is just horrible. I mean just awfull…Truinfel and JONES for a two year rental. I Hope this is just not true. Jones I can live with but not Truinfel.

Just trade Morrow already Bavasi
27
Lance says:
January 8th, 2008 at 6:23 pm

I’m with you totally on Bedard, Jason. Though others may be, if we acquire him for whatever it takes I won’t be able to get excited about having the guy.

My feeling is that Bedard’s heart won’t be in playing for the Mariners and his pitching will reflect that. He’ll be like Gil Meche, at best, protecting his arm, until he can cash in two years from now.

I can’t remember a trade where the Mariners acquired a veteran who played better, or even as well, as he did with his previous team. Usually because they didn’t want to be here in the first place.

Gorman Thomas, Kevin Mitchell, Tony Bernazzard, Mike Timlin. Then we watched as the guys we gave up for them became stars.
28
GLS says:
January 8th, 2008 at 6:37 pm

Jason, great post at #18. I wish one of our local papers would have the balls to write that story, especially the part about Bavasi not having much power within his own organization. It’s really inexcusable that he goes along with it.
29
GLS says:
January 8th, 2008 at 6:44 pm

Lance - I agree this could be a very lopsided deal in the Orioles’ favor, but saying that, once here, he wouldn’t pitch well because he’s saving his arm for free agency, doesn’t make a lot of sense when you consider how that would impact his free agent value.
30
GLS says:
January 8th, 2008 at 7:00 pm

Assuming it’s a given that Jones is the primary piece on our side of the trade, and that the trade is DEFINITELY going to happen in one form or another, how do we value the remaining prospects in our system when it comes to selecting second and third pieces in the deal? Are Morrow and Clement untouchable? Is Triunfel more valuable than either or both and therefore untouchable? Where should Tillman, Butler, Mickolio, et al. fit into our calculations?
31
Lance says:
January 8th, 2008 at 7:02 pm

GLS, he’s got a history of arm troubles already, so why risk further problems before cashing in? He’d probably shift into neutral for the first year and a half to be safe and kick it in gear after the 2009 ASB.

Not a whole lot different from Meche’s pattern after his shoulder problems. Look what it got him.

It seems teams tend to pay more on promise and potential than post performance. How else can you explain the contracts that A.J. Burnett and Gil Meche got?

Bedard sees what works and will pitch accordingly, IMHO.
32
GLS says:

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Re: Santana

Post  RedMagma on Thu Jan 10, 2008 5:35 am

Forecast for Spring: More Yankees Drama

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/10/sports/baseball/10yankees.html?_r=1&ref=baseball&oref=slogin

Andy Pettitte’s 13-year-old son, Joshua, is recovering from a broken arm and a head injury sustained in a four-wheeler accident after Christmas. Pettitte’s father, Tom, was in the hospital Wednesday with heart trouble.


Those kinds of issues caused Pettitte to seriously consider retiring this winter. He was tempted to return to the “private sector,” to use Roger Clemens’s term from his fiery news conference Monday, and spend more time with his family.

Instead, Pettitte returned to the Yankees, which means he is due in Tampa, Fla., for spring training Feb. 14, when pitchers and catchers are to report to Legends Field. It will be the first camp under the Yankees’ new manager, Joe Girardi, and the first with Hank and Hal Steinbrenner in command of their father’s empire.

But Pettitte is scheduled to make a detour on his way from Deer Park, Tex., to One Steinbrenner Drive. The House committee investigating steroids in baseball has postponed its hearing, to which Pettitte is invited, to Feb. 13, after first scheduling it for next Wednesday.

There could be high drama in Washington, considering Pettitte’s position in the standoff between Clemens, his teammate for the last nine years, and Brian McNamee, who was the personal trainer for Clemens and Pettitte and named both in George J. Mitchell’s report on the use of performance-enhancing drugs in baseball. Pettitte later confirmed McNamee’s account that he used human growth hormone to recover from an injury in 2002. Clemens has forcefully denied McNamee’s claims.

The follow-up questions from Washington will accompany Pettitte to spring training, a time of year that is usually relaxing for veterans, who are often on a golf course by midday. It will be a major distraction at the start of camp, old baggage for a new regime to handle.

Pettitte had hoped to meet with reporters in New York before spring training to put the issue behind him, but the team said that now seems unlikely, given the timing of the hearing.

“I’m not going to comment on any of it,” General Manager Brian Cashman said Wednesday, when asked if he worried about the new date of the hearing. Hank Steinbrenner did not return a telephone call, and Tom Pettitte declined to comment on any aspect of his son’s situation.

“I don’t have nothing to say,” Tom Pettitte said. “I’ve got enough going on in my life right now. I’ve got my own personal problems with my heart. I’m up here in the hospital right now.”

Tom Pettitte had double-bypass surgery in 1998.

The Yankees are used to dealing with ancillary issues at the start of spring training. Rare are the years that Cashman can use his favorite spring phrase — “Camp Quiet” — to wrap up group interviews.

When he reported last February, Alex Rodriguez finally opened up about his relationship with Derek Jeter. Instead of insisting they were still close friends, Rodriguez acknowledged they had grown apart, a strategy that puzzled Jeter but helped Rodriguez’s peace of mind.

In 2005, Jason Giambi met with reporters at Yankee Stadium right before spring training, giving a carefully worded apology for using steroids. The steroids issue hung over Giambi and his teammate Gary Sheffield that spring, after leaks from Giambi’s testimony to the grand jury in the Bay Area Laboratory Co-Operative case were published that winter.

In 2004, after Giambi and Sheffield had testified in the Balco case, steroids were also the popular topic at Legends Field. A slimmed-down Giambi denied ever using performance-enhancing drugs, and an angry Sheffield volunteered to take a urine or blood test to prove his innocence.

Pettitte is typically not as evasive as Giambi, as confrontational as Sheffield or as melodramatic as Rodriguez. But he will be forced to deal with questions about an uncomfortable off-field topic, just another rite of spring at Legends Field.

Jack Curry contributed reporting.

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Re: Santana

Post  RedMagma on Thu Jan 10, 2008 5:38 am

Giants Using Power to Start, and Finesse to Finish


http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/10/sports/football/10blue.html?ref=football

EAST RUTHERFORD, N.J. — Dressing side by side in the Giants’ locker room, Brandon Jacobs and Ahmad Bradshaw make an unlikely pair: Jacobs at 6 feet 4 inches and 264 pounds, and Bradshaw at 5-9 and 198.


“That’s exactly what makes our combination work,” Jacobs said Wednesday. “Defenses spend two and a half quarters tackling me, and they’re kind of worn down. Then in comes Ahmad, who is this quick, jittery guy. He looks short and stocky, and maybe the defensive guys think they can stand there and he’ll run into them. But he won’t do that.

“He’s not me. He runs away from you.”

Of all the improbable story lines of this Giants season, Bradshaw as a late-game secret weapon with the bruising Jacobs on the sideline may be the most implausible. The 250th of 255 players picked in last spring’s N.F.L. draft, Bradshaw was a long shot to even make the team.

When the season started, he was the kickoff returner, a job he lost after fumbling twice in the first two games. After regaining that job, he did not earn his first offensive rushing carry until late November. Then, in a Buffalo snowstorm, a pivotal 88-yard touchdown run helped clinch a Giants playoff berth and landed Bradshaw his spot as the change-of-pace back.

On Sunday, with 54 of his 66 rushing yards in the fourth quarter of the playoff victory over Tampa Bay, Bradshaw was no longer anyone’s afterthought. And by Wednesday, with anticipation for this weekend’s Dallas showdown building, Bradshaw was a spotlighted performer.

Reporters crowded around Bradshaw’s locker, forcing Jacobs to dress off to the side. Earlier, when Jacobs was brought to a news conference, he spent much of it answering questions about Bradshaw.

After two seasons as the apprentice to Tiki Barber, Jacobs now shares his playing time with Bradshaw, a situation brought on in part by the various injuries Jacobs has sustained. The Giants also readily see the effectiveness of a one-two punch in the backfield. In the fourth quarter against Tampa Bay, Jacobs did not touch the ball.

“I don’t mind Ahmad getting his shot at all,” Jacobs said. “I just want to win these games. Besides, it’s important to have two backs. We bring in a fresh set of legs at the end of a big game, and that’s tough on the defense.

“Like I said, I’ve been banging on them, and now they have to go chase this other guy who has talent and is hard to bring down.”

Bradshaw smiled sheepishly at his locker when all this was presented to him Wednesday.

“I was just waiting my turn,” he said.

But he is not shying away from the opportunity. Asked why the Giants would win Sunday, despite having lost both regular-season games to the Cowboys, Bradshaw answered, “Hopefully, because I’ll be in the game.”

The Cowboys are aware that Bradshaw is not Jacobs.

“You have to know which guy is in the game, because while they run the same plays, they run them different ways,” Cowboys Coach Wade Phillips said in a conference call with reporters. “One guy is more the speed, outside guy, and the other one pounds you a little more. But both can do either one. You’ve got to just pay attention.”

Bradshaw, meanwhile, called playing in Dallas in January a dream come true.

“Having watched so many playoff games from Dallas with my dad, it’s pretty exciting for both of us that I’m now going to be in one,” said Bradshaw. Raised in Virginia, Bradshaw, 21, said he was a Cowboys fans because his father, James, was one.

He was also a fan of Dallas running back Emmitt Smith.

“I liked the way he read defenses and made smart cuts,” Bradshaw said. “I’ve tried to do some of those things, but I don’t compare myself to Emmitt Smith.”

He watches Jacobs run in the beginning of games, he said, imagining himself with the football on the same plays.

“I try to train my eyes to visualize the kind of moves and cuts behind the blocks that I would do in that situation,” he said. “And Brandon helps a lot when he comes to the sideline and talks about his decisions.”

Bradshaw has also had to navigate that scourge rookie running backs must face: picking up blitzes in pass protection.

“I guess every young player goes through that,” Bradshaw said. “It can affect your playing time, because to the coaches, it’s a trust thing. Over time, they start to trust you.”

Giants Coach Tom Coughlin is apparently over any reluctance he might have had. On Wednesday, talking about how Bradshaw had been used mostly late in the games, Coughlin said: “You can use Bradshaw any time you want to use Bradshaw. There is no reservation about that at all.”

As prominent as Bradshaw has become in the Giants’ plans, he is still a bit player in the culture of a pro football locker room. While dozens of reporters waited at his locker Wednesday, Bradshaw was first required to complete a different assignment — delivering and laying out an enormous spread of food for the veterans in another room.

“I always say you’re not a rookie once you step foot on that field,” Bradshaw said.

But in the locker room?

Bradshaw smiled and said, “A rookie is always a rookie in the locker room.”

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Re: Santana

Post  RedMagma on Thu Jan 10, 2008 5:39 am

GLENN EXPECTED TO PLAY The Cowboys expect to have the services of receiver Terry Glenn, who was inactive for the first 15 games of the season after having knee surgery. He played sparingly in the final game against the Redskins and did not catch a pass, but he practiced fully Wednesday.

“I’m somewhat encouraged there,” Wade Phillips said. “I wouldn’t say he’s 100 percent, but he’s doing better. I think he may be able to play.”

Tom Coughlin is wary about the possible impact the speedy Glenn could have.

“That’s the added addition of another big-play guy, another outstanding playmaker,” he said.

A FEW GIANTS MISS PRACTICE Giants cornerback Sam Madison (abdominal strain) did not practice, but center Shaun O’Hara (knee) took part in a few drills. The two missed last week’s playoff game against Tampa Bay.

Right tackle Kareem McKenzie (ankle) did not practice, but he is expected back Thursday.

FALCONS CONSIDER SPAGNUOLO Steve Spagnuolo, the Giants’ defensive coordinator, is a candidate for the head-coaching job of the Atlanta Falcons, but he will not be interviewed until after the Giants’ season ends.

On Sunday, Spagnuolo will go head-to-head with a couple of other candidates. Jason Garrett, the Cowboys’ offensive coordinator, and Tony Sparano, Dallas’s assistant head coach/offensive line coach, were each interviewed for the Atlanta job during last week’s bye.

THAT’S WHAT HE SAID HE SAID Giants quarterback Eli Manning tends to be bland, perhaps intentionally so, in his answers to reporters, but he had a news conference highlight Wednesday during an exchange about the team’s eight-game road winning streak.

Reporter: What is it about the road that you like?

Manning: We win on the road.

Reporter: What about you personally?

Manning: I like that we win on the road.

Ken Daley contributed reporting from Irving, Tex.

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Re: Santana

Post  RedMagma on Thu Jan 10, 2008 5:39 am

In other words Hank actually has no say in the matter and has just been talking out of his ass for the last couple months. And Hal and Cashman finally told him to stfu.

If the Yankees are out that means the red sox are out right? So we’re pretty much the twins only option.

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Re: Santana

Post  RedMagma on Thu Jan 10, 2008 5:57 am

Please Re-read the Article, Can you read? The article states Hank is leaning away not out Johan Santana.

Sign Colon or resign Benson. Do it Omar.. Mets don’t need Johan

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Re: Santana

Post  RedMagma on Thu Jan 10, 2008 5:58 am

Doreen January 10th, 2008 at 7:25 am

Re: Santana to the Mets. In every report that Santana is said to be going to a particular team, there is always the Twins wanting something else or something more. I seriously doubt a deal gets done with anyone. I surely don’t see the Red Sox or the Yankees capitulating, though I’ll admit the Mets may be desperate enough to say, what the heck, it’s Santana, let’s do it - we have no one else.

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Re: Santana

Post  RedMagma on Thu Jan 10, 2008 6:00 am

http://mlbfleecefactor.com/2008/01/10/johan-santana-finally-traded-to-the-mets/


According to Joe Christensen of the Minneapolis Star Tribune, it appears the Mets are the favorite to land Twins ace Johan Santana. This after weeks of speculation that have seemingly had Santanta headed to the New York Yankees and Boston Red Sox at various times. We heard just yesterday that Hank Steinbrenner was not willing to go over 5 years on an extension for Santana, if the Yanks had acquired him.

There will be no David Wright or Jose Reyes shipping out as part of this deal, as some writers have poorly speculated in the past few weeks. Instead, the New York Mets have offered the Twins OF Carlos Gomez, to go along with pitching prospects Deolis Guerra, Kevin Mulvey and Phil Humber. Seems like a hefty ransom in return for a player that has one year remaining on his deal, and will cost near $150 million to extend. Then again, we are talking about a 2-time Cy winner here, who is exactly what the Mets are looking for.

However, it appears that the Minnesota Twins are asking for Mets OF prospect Fernando Martinez. They said if he was included in a package, a deal would have been done already. Does that mean swap out Martinez for Gomez, or does it mean Martinez *in addition* to Gomez? We’re not positive. If it’s in addition to, that is crazy. A deal like that would wipe the Mets farm system clean, but give them the ace pitcher they so desperately desire. Let’s see what Omar Minaya’s next move is? Well, it seems the Johan saga has no end, yet…

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Re: Santana

Post  RedMagma on Thu Jan 10, 2008 6:41 am

He might be. Mets need Johan like Britney Spears needs panties.

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Re: Santana

Post  RedMagma on Thu Jan 10, 2008 6:42 am

I wouldn't be so sure.

If all this is true, if the Yankees are dropping out and the Mets are believed to have the "Top Offer", I would think that the Red Sox would swoop back in and get something done.

After all, the Mets' top offer really isn't all that impressive. I'd have to think that any package fronted by Ellsbury or Lester would have to trump what the Mets are offering.

Regardless, if it unfolds in this manner, for all the effort Bill Smith has put into playing poker with the big guys he ends up taking one of the smaller pots of the night having been dealt pocket aces.

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Re: Santana

Post  RedMagma on Thu Jan 10, 2008 6:46 am

Hank knows alot about his mouth...very little about Baseball or this team..

'It's up to Brian to plug any holes in the pen, if there are any..."

We have no f*!CKcking pen...My daughter is 7 and she could handle herself better in the media, and also manage the Yanks better too....

Is this a freakin' joke, or what?





I am waiting for the headline...

"Cash Snaps and decks Hank"...

How many times is this dude gonna throw Brian under the bus? One say he leans towards it, the next day he does not knwo what he wants...

I am checking the gun registry to see if Cash has a registered gun...of he does, I am sending him some bullets with Hanks name on them..sublimiinal messages like that work sometimes.

Well, the price for Street just went up. This guy is just unbelievable

Hank and Pavano to Tampa for a pitching machine, a bag of balls and one rosin bag.

The machine can pitches better than Pavano and the it, the bag of balls and the rosin bag won't talk to the media

the price for street would have been high regardless

One thing I will give Hank credit for, is that he seems willing to listen to his baseball people, something his father wouldn't do mostly under any circumstance. If it wasnt for his big mouth and dumb comments, Hank would be a pretty good owner, at least his first year.. resigning all the guys we needed to, and lettin the young pitching develop is something his father would never do either.



"There you have it, Santana will be a Met."

i doubt he'll be a met

Mets Blog

Coco Crisp for Houston Street according to Gammons?

http://www.metsblog.com/

additionally, the buzz from boston suggests that the Red Sox continue to explore a deal that will bring them a significant set-up man, which will likely cost them one of the players needed to get santana…initially, i assumed they would target A’s RHP Huston Street, while using Coco Crisp, who Billy Beane is quite fond of, according to Peter Gammons…however, and this is total speculation,

This is true...Beane is a joke...he'll probably want Hughes for Street.

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Re: Santana

Post  RedMagma on Thu Jan 10, 2008 6:51 am

Well if you listen to what Theo said last weekend he doesn't seem so enthused either. Realistically it is pretty clear neither team will give up more than they have offered and if the Twins don't like the current package will they change their minds??? Doubt it. It doesn't make sense for the Yankees to pull out and say completely they aren't interested and it doesn't make sense for the Sox, but I don't think either seem to care right now. The Sox are off a World Series win and think they will get better next year with the development of Lester, Ellsbury and Bucholz, so they don't give away talent, Santana doesn't end up on the Yankees and they don't have to pay Santana either. From the Yankees standpoint, they beat the Sox in the season series, they can get better by their young guys developing and not paying Santana, the Sox don't get Santana, I am sure they feel like they are right in the thick of things with other teams. Really both teams will be happy to walk away from this with the other one not getting Santana. Twins may have really overplayed their hand here. It doesn't seem like any other team is aggressively chasing a starter other than the Mariners, but they are after Bedard so it doesn't look like their are more suitors, the Yankees and Sox aren't really being played off of each other here and as time goes on it seems like the urgency or forcing someone into a panic decision is going away.

And last thing I will add, I think this actually increase the chances Santana lands with the Yankees furing this season. Here's why. Kennedy will have more time to prove himself in the majors, Horne, Marquez and Jackson will have some more time in the minors to solidify their value. You could actually see the Yankees making a Santana trade without giving up Hughes if Santana doesn't get traded by spring training as these other "prospects" will be considered more blue chip type of guys which they aren't currently. The Sox offer revolving around Lester (I don't see him improving more than he has shown for 2 years), Bucholz was never offered and never will be and there is no way once Ellsbury is put out there in CF they will ever be able to trade him without the fans going nuts. Plus the Sox are looking at a backup catcher and a potential replacement for Varitek by using Coco as trade bait so that will probably happen by spring training, basically removing the Sox from trade possibiliti

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