Twins betting Santana Stakes still 3-horse race

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Re: Twins betting Santana Stakes still 3-horse race

Post  RedMagma on Tue Jan 15, 2008 12:19 pm

Rob Neyer- First Baseman Rankings

http://insider.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?name=neyer_rob

First class


In the winter of 1999-2000, I spent a few weeks trying to come up with a "Team of the Aughts" -- you know, the best first baseman of the coming decade, the best second baseman, etc. I might as well get this out of the way: My choice for the best third baseman of the '00s was Fernando Tatis. I know. Seems crazy now. But look at what he did in 1999.

As near as I can tell, my ESPN.com output from that long-ago century is gone forever. So I don't have to do this. But I will. Here were my choices, from pitcher to right field, one through nine: Pedro Martinez, Jason Kendall, Nick Johnson, Edgardo Alfonzo, Nomar Garciaparra, Tatis, Ben Grieve, Andruw Jones, Vladimir Guerrero. Oh, and at closer, I chose Billy Wagner instead of Mariano Rivera (and instead of Rivera in second place, I had Ugueth Urbina).

This perhaps is the perfect time for a week of self-reflection (if not flagellation), wherein I try to understand just how I could have been so wrong about so many things. But life's short. Reading those old columns, I don't think I've improved much as a writer. I do think I'm a bit humbler than that guy. Maybe a little smarter, too. Either way, this time around, I'm going to make things easier and look five years ahead instead of 10. We'll start with the first basemen, just like last time, and should finish right around when pitchers and catchers report next month.

*******

Last season, two first basemen posted four-figure OPS's. Only five others topped .900, and I think it's almost safe to summarily eliminate everybody else from contention. There is one other first baseman who I'd like to include, if only for the sake of argument. But I'll give you a few minutes to guess his identity while we run through the list of last season's .900-plus OPS guys.

Player Age OBP SLG OPS+
Carlos Pena 30 .411 .627 172
Prince Fielder 24 .395 .618 156
Albert Pujols 28 .429 .568 157
Ryan Howard 28 .392 .584 144
Mark Teixeira 28 .400 .563 150
Todd Helton 34 .434 .494 133
Derrek Lee 32 400 .513 131

About the terminology: (1) Age is actually "seasonal age," the player's age on July 1, 2008; (2) OPS+, as you probably know, is a park- and league-adjusted metric that sets 100 as average (roughly speaking, Todd Helton's OPS was 33 percent better than the average National League hitter).

Here's something that absolutely blows me away every time it pops into my head: Albert Pujols is younger than Ryan Howard -- 58 days younger, to be fairly precise. Granted, there have been questions about Pujols' birthday for some time ... but nobody's yet come up with a different answer.

Something else that blows me away: Carlos Pena in 2007. At-bat for at-bat, he was every bit as good as David Ortiz (who actually should have been listed above, and we'll discuss him in a moment).

May we dismiss Todd Helton and Derrek Lee immediately? They're both fine players, but statistically, they don't match up with the others and they're both on the wrong side of 30. I just don't think there's a general manager alive who would take one of these guys ahead of (for example) Pujols. So let's call them non-contenders.

That leaves five. Running through each of them quickly ...

Teixeira: Two-time Gold Glover in five seasons, including two great ones and two good ones.

Howard: Older than Pujols (and Teixeira), doesn't run or field well. In Howard's favor, while he does play half his games in a good park for power hitters, his career stats are almost exactly as good in road games as home games.

Pujols: If there's a negative, it's awfully hard to find. He's an outstanding fielder and a fine base runner. While his hitting last season was not up to his usual standards, that was due mostly to a poor (for him) April; from May 1 through end of the season, he batted .342 with 61 extra-base hits.

Fielder: It's not hard to like a 23-year-old with a .618 slugging percentage. It's hard to love a 24-year-old who carries something like 275 pounds on his six-foot frame.

Pena: It was thrilling to watch him, overnight, become the best-hitting first baseman in the American League. In fact, look at that list ... Pena's the only American Leaguer. (Teixeira opened the season with the Rangers, but his numbers improved a great deal after he joined the Braves in early August.) If we account for the AL's superiority, Pena simply blows away all the other first basemen here. In 2007, that is. But as well as he played, we have to remember that he entered 2007 with a .789 OPS -- .331 on-base, .459 slugging -- in nearly 2,000 plate appearances.

We should consider David Ortiz, because a lot of teams would be thrilled to play him at first base. He's 32 and not getting any faster, but he does play in the better league, and his three best seasons were his last three.

We should also consider Adrian Gonzalez, who's now been quite good for two straight seasons, and his numbers would be significantly better if he didn't play half his games in the toughest hitter's park in the majors. I will argue that right now he's the equal of Helton and Lee, hitting-wise, and he's also a lot younger and has a good defensive rep.

My list, looking five seasons out:

1. Pujols
2. Fielder
3. Howard
4. Ortiz
5. Teixeira
6. Gonzalez
7. Pena
8. Lee
9. Helton
10. ????

I've reserved that last spot for the next Prince Fielder or Ryan Howard. Any ideas? If Ryan Braun had tried to play third base for almost any team but the Brewers last year, I'd give him the slot. But he's not moving to first anytime soon. So who's the next great first baseman?

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Re: Twins betting Santana Stakes still 3-horse race

Post  RedMagma on Tue Jan 15, 2008 12:22 pm

1. Angels
2. Red Sox
3. Mariners
4. Indians (borowski lowers them)
5. Twins
6. Blue Jays
7. Rays
8. Yankees
9. A's
10. Tigers
11. White Sox
12. Rangers
13. Royals
14. Orioles

I know I'll get heat over the Rays being #6 but let me make my case. They only have 2 members of the bullpen that started 07 that will be back in 08. In the second half last year they brought in new arms and the bullpen did well. On top of that they added Percival. It wont be a great bullpen but its not a bad one either.

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Re: Twins betting Santana Stakes still 3-horse race

Post  RedMagma on Tue Jan 15, 2008 12:24 pm

http://proxy.espn.go.com/chat/chatESPN?event_id=18824

Nubbs (Big Rock Road): Now that Lauranitis is going back to school, who do you see the Pats taking if they indeed get stuck with the no. 7 pick and can't trade out of it?

SportsNation Steve Muench: (2:19 PM ET ) First off, I think they are going to try to trade out of that pick now more than ever. I also think that getting a tackle like Clady makes sense because they could upgrade on the right side. That said, it's tough to say that's too much of a need considering how well the front five has played as a unit. So taking the best available player makes the most sense. In my opinion that player would be Kenny Phillips or Mike Jenkins who are both defensive backs.

steve (boston, ma): Who are your top 3 in the draft?

SportsNation Steve Muench: (2:23 PM ET ) In terms of talent, my top three are McFadden, Dorsey and Long. The way I see the draft going is GLen Dorsey going and then Jake Long. If Atlanta chooses third, I think it will take QB Matt Ryan because they need a quaretrback in the worst way. That leaves mcFadden at the No. 3 or No. 4 slot in my estimation.

Jason (New Orleans): Where do you think Dorsey will end up? what about Early Doucet?

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Re: Twins betting Santana Stakes still 3-horse race

Post  RedMagma on Tue Jan 15, 2008 12:28 pm

Laurinaitis is staying for senior year
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http://cbs.sportsline.com/collegefootball/story/10576871
jetsfansuperbowl3 Post #2: Jan 14, 6:51 pm Quote | Report Violation
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basically every mock now is scre.wed up.... lol. it was smart though.... sort of like a dorsey last year. next year he'll definitely be the best defensive player in the league, and will probably be a top 5 pick.
dmb88886 Post #3: Jan 14, 6:56 pm Quote | Report Violation
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jetsfan, that's what they said about Brady Quinn, if you're a top 10, you NEVER stay and I guarantee its VERY rare for a guy to move up in the top 10 from one year to the next. I guarantee he's not in the top 10 next season. Terrible decision by him (if he thinks he'll be higher next season), not terrible if he just wants to play another season in college.
jetsfansuperbowl3 Post #4: Jan 14, 7:23 pm Quote | Report Violation
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jetsfan, that's what they said about Brady Quinn, if you're a top 10, you NEVER stay and I guarantee its VERY rare for a guy to move up in the top 10 from one year to the next. I guarantee he's not in the top 10 next season. Terrible decision by him (if he thinks he'll be higher next season), not terrible if he just wants to play another season in college.


true..... but i don't see it happening. plus, comparing an ILB and a QB is totally different. if a QB has an off season, his stock plummets, whereas if an ILB has one, i don't think he loses SO much. i also don't think he'll have an off season. he'll be just as good, and probably will be on an elite team.
bada_bing1136 Post #5: Jan 14, 7:28 pm Quote | Report Violation
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I think the Pats were looking to find a replacement for their aging linebacker corps with this pick. Oh well, I guess they'll have 2 losses next season instead of none.
tanked_as_usual Post #6: 7:24 am Quote | Report Violation
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I think the Pats were looking to find a replacement for their aging linebacker corps with this pick. Oh well, I guess they'll have 2 losses next season instead of none.



no way, the pats will pick up victor hobson after the jets dump him and he will have a career year
baaattlestaaar Post #7: 8:02 am Quote | Report Violation
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Very foolish decision. He has nothing to gain by staying in college except to be Big Man on Campus for another year. A slip on the turf can ruin his career. Take the money, play out your career and if you want to go back to college, you can do it when you retire from NFL with lots of money.
jetsncards Post #8: 8:41 am Quote | Report Violation
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I think the Pats were looking to find a replacement for their aging linebacker corps with this pick. Oh well, I guess they'll have 2 losses next season instead of none.



no way, the pats will pick up victor hobson after the jets dump him and he will have a career year

I would not be suprised if this happens.

dmb88886 Post #9: 9:00 am Quote | Report Violation
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I think the Pats were looking to find a replacement for their aging linebacker corps with this pick. Oh well, I guess they'll have 2 losses next season instead of none.



no way, the pats will pick up victor hobson after the jets dump him and he will have a career year

Will he be the beast that Doug Gabriel was? lol

Jets10244 Post #10: 1:05 pm Quote | Report Violation
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Matt Leinart is the best example that comes to mind- would have been the first pick in 06 draft by San Fran but he decided to go back and slipped the following year to ten.
bajanking38 Post #11: 2:14 pm Quote | Report Violation
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Good riddance to Victor Hobson. He will never be anything special, I have been wanting him gone for three years at least.

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Re: Twins betting Santana Stakes still 3-horse race

Post  RedMagma on Tue Jan 15, 2008 12:30 pm

One more year: Defensive stud Laurinaitis picks Buckeyes over NFL


http://cbs.sportsline.com/collegefootball/story/10576871

COLUMBUS, Ohio -- Two-time All-America linebacker James Laurinaitis will stay at Ohio State for his senior year.

"After a long thought process and strategic evaluation of the pros and cons of this decision with my close family and friends, I've decided to stay at Ohio State," Laurinaitis said in a statement issued by the school.

Can James Laurinaitis lead OSU to a third straight BCS title game? (US Presswire)
Can James Laurinaitis lead OSU to a third straight BCS title game? (US Presswire)
Laurinaitis, a 6-foot-3, 244-pounder from Hamel, Minn., won the 2007 Butkus Award as the nation's top linebacker and the 2006 Nagurski Award as the top defensive player in college football.

The Big Ten Defensive Player of the Year this past season, he set a BCS Championship Game record with 18 tackles against LSU in the Buckeyes' 38-24 loss, their second consecutive national title game loss.

Laurinaitis, the son of WWE professional wrestler Animal from the Legion of Doom, led the Buckeyes with 121 tackles for the season.

Most NFL Draft projections have pegged Laurinaitis as a high first-round draft pick. During Ohio State's preparations for the game with LSU he had batted away questions about what he would do next season.

"I know I can still improve as a player, and I know there is still much more to me and for the Buckeyes to accomplish," he said. "I want to stay a Buckeye for another season. You only get to do this once, so I want to take full advantage. There are a lot of things that money can't buy, and some of those things are the experiences of a senior season."

Coach Jim Tressel disclosed in December that he had urged 13 juniors to file the paperwork with the NFL to receive scouting evaluations to determine what round the players might be taken in this spring's draft.

So far, only second-team All-American defensive end Vernon Gholston has said he will give up his senior year to make himself eligible for the draft. The deadline for third-year players to declare their intentions is Tuesday.
AP NEWS
The Associated Press News Service

Copyright 2007-2008, The Associated Press, All Rights Reserved

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Re: Twins betting Santana Stakes still 3-horse race

Post  RedMagma on Tue Jan 15, 2008 12:30 pm

#1
I believe that Ohio State should start the year #1, they will return 18 starters, and both of their kickers on top of getting back there best pass rusher (Laurence Wilson) who missed all of last year other than the first game of the year due to a broken ankle, they might lose to USC but I see no other games on thier schudule that they won't be heavy favorites in, if they are lucky enough to make i ...(more)
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Woolybear72
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January 15, 2008 12:14 pm
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Top 2 Matchup in September

With the two teams playing each other, and Laurinaitis and Jenkins returning, it has to be #1 vs. #2 when OSU plays against USC in Spetember 2008, regardless of who gets the top spot. This is the matchup that should have happened in the Rose Bowl if WVU and Missouri didn't pee down their leg to get a shot this year. What better way to start off college football in 2008....... to see the bes
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January 14, 2008 11:41 pm
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NOOOOOOO!!!!
i wanted him to go to the pats with the 7th pick in the draft...
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SMOKINGGUNS
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January 14, 2008 10:13 pm
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Buckeyes will be scary good

Gholston's loss will hurt, but hopefully Wilson and Robert Rose will be fully recovered to give the buckeyes and excellent pair of book ends to go with Heyward and Larrimore inside. This could be one of the great OSU teams of all time.

Jenkins, Boone, Robiskie, Laurinitis, Freeman..... thanks for coming back for one more year! Bring on USC.
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January 14, 2008 8:26 pm
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Third times a charm/2009 NC Prediction

A friend of mine told me after the Championship game, "Don't feel bad, next year OSU will be good enough to go back to the championship game and lose to Georgia"

I smacked him in the face, but then i thought that he could be right....the game at least, not the part where we lose. The third time's a charm. Georgia was young this year, and they should be just as goo
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LB News strikes fear into the hearts of college..
football fans. While this news brings a sigh of relief for the Buckeye faithful it also creates a storm of fearfulness for opposing teams in 2008! His bone jarring hits and punishing blows will no doubt bring another Big Ten title and possible championship appearance back to Buckeye land. Good Decision James! GO BUCKEYES!

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Re: Twins betting Santana Stakes still 3-horse race

Post  RedMagma on Tue Jan 15, 2008 12:48 pm

http://insider.espn.go.com/ncf/insider/columns/story?columnist=kiper_jr_mel&id=3195817

The New York Giants' primary need is at outside linebacker. Mathias Kiwanuka -- who missed six games with a broken leg -- is transitioning from defensive end in college to outside linebacker. Kawika Mitchell could leave in free agency and Reggie Torbor is average. At safety, Gibril Wilson is a free agent and they don't have a standout at the position. In a league where more teams have tight ends who can stretch the field, teams need that cornerstone safety. Offensive line help on the left side is an area they could address in terms of depth, although it isn't a huge need. Cornerback Aaron Ross was a very good pick last year and he's done a very good job, but he's just one player. Sam Madison is 33 and Corey Webster has been up and down.

Derek will be a on Espn News Hotlist 3pm

http://insider.espn.go.com/ncf/insider/columns/story?columnist=kiper_jr_mel&id=3195817

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Re: Twins betting Santana Stakes still 3-horse race

Post  RedMagma on Tue Jan 15, 2008 12:51 pm

THIS IS WHY BRIAN MCNAMEE LIED


I have yet to get answers and have been doing this awhile. i welcome discussion, input, questions....etc lets try to keep some semblence of civility...we are not the ones on trial...can blame others for the way they feel...logic is key to any debate...kids read this too as well so please, keep it somewhat clean

Mac gave two separte truths. One on the first day; which included PETTITTE ; and then The Feds came back with the IRS, and after SOMETHING had happened....said this "we know more "shyte" about you then you know about yoursefl" Take a minute and consider that with our "limited" information. hardin article.

Mac was an Ex NYC COP. That said, MAC is conversant with Strong Arming Tactics to get one to roll. And would certainly be on to any attempt for him to do so. After the above quote....THE FEDS said "NOW THEN we know about Andy, tell us about the pitcher. You trained him too. Take us back again to the first time you met CLemens." Hardin article

That is not me making it up.

2 things. 1) why the two official statements. Doesnt one cancel the other out; and leave a less than credible witness? Wasn't the first official stmt made by the same witness as the second? How in the world is that credible?

2.) Why the IRS? Mac was a distributor, yes. But admittedly a "small potatoe". Radom was found to be the supplier, was found guilty of distrubuting BIG amounts and of money laundering. Flashes of RICO cases shining in right now. Mac was small, and was fingered by Radom. So then, why the two Feds (1 being IRS)? IRS...money laundering. Leaves more to be "suspicious" about what MAC was really into.

3.) Let's go further. If we are saying we prosecute the "dealers" and not make the players the target in our effort to clean up ball (per MITCHELL pg 340) why the deal for MAC? I mean, why would they even offer one without getting another BIGGER fish (dealer) in return? They targeted players.

4.) That leads a logical person to conclude that there is more to mac's involvement in illegal activities then mere "small potatoes." COnsider this, if he is small why not go for the slam dunk prosecution, and obviously the truth. That is the point of the whole investigation per mitchell pg 340.

5.) There is no coraborrating evidence. Other than a "dealers" statement against a player. Which circumvents the reason to investigate this issue. HE got full immunity...aka a liscense to say anything, and that can not be tested in a legal "criminal court room." Congress steps in...thank gawd.

6.) The two named investigators are the same in the Grimsley investigation (who incedentally says roger is clean ....they pitched together for the Yanks), SOMEHOW it magically was leaked that clemens was involved. Hence the retraction and apology by the LA TIMES. AS IT WAS FALSE INFO.

Earlier, i concluded mac must have had some other illegal activities outside of ball (as it is not in the report...about the deal or "the fact the knew sooo much about mac...the reason for the second stmt). What could it have been?

WHAT IS THE STATUTE OF LIMITATIONS FOR ATTMEPTED MURDER aka ST PETERSBERG RAPE CASE....she took a new fatal dose of ghb! Where did he get that? That could be the reason for the "suddne change in stories"

or

mac was a cop.....he could have done anything...but think statute of limitations.

"I know man. I am sorry. I didnt know what else to do. I just didnt want to go to jail. MY WIFE (rape case) just left me, my son is sick...I DIDNT KNOW WHAT TO DO. WHat do you want me to do? (aka what should i do) I am sorry ...what do you want ...its not like i have money."

listen to the tape again. mac had emailed ROCKET as well...evidence! Listen to how shaky the voice is...anxiety. ROCKET was advised, do not lead him...he has to admit lying on his own (mac is a cop...he knows). BUT why didnt mac say..."ROG. WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT MAN....YOU KNOW ITS TRUE"

that is the nutshell of it.

sorry for the boofk



- regarding witnesses available...go to mitchell...go to EDIT and FIND...type in PAXTON CRAWFORD....they had other players statements. paxton crawford implicated his whole team and was laughing about it!!! PEREZ too. And certain players from PEREZ's team were traded to become HUGE NAMES TOO. Also google coach star...dunno the 1st name. that will really shock you. HE WAS A COACH.

available witnesses for what? targeting players?? or targeting "dealers"

sorry i am on break now.

enjoy and look forward to more discussion



Macnamee LIED ABOUT HIS QUALIFICATIONS....DOCTOR MCNAMEE ....YOU LOOK IT UP THIS TIME AND PROVE ME WRONG.....FOR ONCE!



1.) Pettitte first asked McNamee about using human growth hormone during the 2001-02 offseason, the report says, and McNamee at the time discouraged him from using it. But in the spring of 2002, while Pettitte was recovering from elbow tendinitis, McNamee injected Pettitte with HGH. In 2003, when the BALCO case first broke, Pettitte asked McNamee what to say if asked about performance enhancers. McNamee told him to do what he liked. They never discussed the subject again.



2.)

While trying to expand beyond his Yankees training duties, McNamee began referring to himself as Dr. McNamee in his side gigs. He was featured in InVite's promotional magazine as "Dr. Brian McNamee, Ph.D," used the e-mail address "McNameePHD," and told people he had earned his doctorate at Columbus University in Louisiana. Columbus now operates out of Mississippi, after the state of Louisiana shut it down in 2001 for being a "diploma mill," churning out degrees to people who did little or no academic work.

Despite his efforts to branch out, McNamee kept a low profile until October of 2001, when he was suddenly in the New York tabloids. According to police reports, an employee of a St. Petersburg, Fla., hotel where the Yankees were staying had noticed a man and a woman apparently having sex in the hotel pool, while another man looked on from a few feet away. All three were naked in the pool. One of the men, Charles Wonsowicz, the former St. John's pitcher who was now the Yankees' video technician, left immediately when confronted by the employee. The other, McNamee, continued to hold on to the woman until the hotel employee asked him to leave again, according to police documents.



http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3153874


Last edited by on Tue Jan 15, 2008 1:03 pm; edited 2 times in total

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Re: Twins betting Santana Stakes still 3-horse race

Post  RedMagma on Tue Jan 15, 2008 12:55 pm

Macnamee LIED ABOUT HIS QUALIFICATIONS....DOCTOR MCNAMEE ....YOU LOOK IT UP THIS TIME AND PROVE ME WRONG.....FOR ONCE!



1.) Pettitte first asked McNamee about using human growth hormone during the 2001-02 offseason, the report says, and McNamee at the time discouraged him from using it. But in the spring of 2002, while Pettitte was recovering from elbow tendinitis, McNamee injected Pettitte with HGH. In 2003, when the BALCO case first broke, Pettitte asked McNamee what to say if asked about performance enhancers. McNamee told him to do what he liked. They never discussed the subject again.



2.)

While trying to expand beyond his Yankees training duties, McNamee began referring to himself as Dr. McNamee in his side gigs. He was featured in InVite's promotional magazine as "Dr. Brian McNamee, Ph.D," used the e-mail address "McNameePHD," and told people he had earned his doctorate at Columbus University in Louisiana. Columbus now operates out of Mississippi, after the state of Louisiana shut it down in 2001 for being a "diploma mill," churning out degrees to people who did little or no academic work.

Despite his efforts to branch out, McNamee kept a low profile until October of 2001, when he was suddenly in the New York tabloids. According to police reports, an employee of a St. Petersburg, Fla., hotel where the Yankees were staying had noticed a man and a woman apparently having sex in the hotel pool, while another man looked on from a few feet away. All three were naked in the pool. One of the men, Charles Wonsowicz, the former St. John's pitcher who was now the Yankees' video technician, left immediately when confronted by the employee. The other, McNamee, continued to hold on to the woman until the hotel employee asked him to leave again, according to police documents.



http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3153874

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Re: Twins betting Santana Stakes still 3-horse race

Post  RedMagma on Tue Jan 15, 2008 1:00 pm

Kiper - Giants needs for Nfl Draft 2008

http://insider.espn.go.com/ncf/insider/columns/story?columnist=kiper_jr_mel&id=3195817

The New York Giants' primary need is at outside linebacker. Mathias Kiwanuka -- who missed six games with a broken leg -- is transitioning from defensive end in college to outside linebacker. Kawika Mitchell could leave in free agency and Reggie Torbor is average. At safety, Gibril Wilson is a free agent and they don't have a standout at the position. In a league where more teams have tight ends who can stretch the field, teams need that cornerstone safety. Offensive line help on the left side is an area they could address in terms of depth, although it isn't a huge need. Cornerback Aaron Ross was a very good pick last year and he's done a very good job, but he's just one player. Sam Madison is 33 and Corey Webster has been up and down.

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Re: Twins betting Santana Stakes still 3-horse race

Post  RedMagma on Tue Jan 15, 2008 1:07 pm

Why do you assume his thin frame is the only reason?

To me, neither guy can be considered "not an injury risk" (Buchholz hasn't thrown more than 150ish innings and had a tired arm, although I don't think that automatically makes him an injury risk or anything...Joba's weight is what it is, but he's not automatically an injury risk as a result either). Both guys are essentially ready (by that I mean Clay may be a bit more polished, but we're not talking about "major league ready" VS "A ball pitcher"). Joba's got a better fastball and the nasty slider, Clay has a much better changeup and I'm assuming a better curve (Joba really didn't show it too much and it COULD be plus, but it's obviously not one of his two best pitches). Neither guy walks the ballpark.

I'd go with Joba because I think his upside is a little bit bigger, although I can understand why someone would pick Clay. I just don't see how thin frame has anything to do with it really, there are very legitimate reasons to pick Joba. I'd also say that except for the bugs (which was a special case) Joba pitched very high pressure innings and never once faltered. Clay hasn't really had that yet (although obviously he had the pressure of the no hitter, but still, Baltimore blows). Which certainly isn't to say he can't handle it, he probably can, but that's another reason someone may choose Joba.

And I take the question to be "who would you rather have", period. Not "just for this coming season" in which case Clay may be more polished and that might enter into the equation. Not "in ten years" which is another thing, but simply "pick a prospect, both guys entering their rookie seasons in the majors, who do you want". Who do you want starting this coming season and for the next 6 seasons (at least)?

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Re: Twins betting Santana Stakes still 3-horse race

Post  RedMagma on Tue Jan 15, 2008 1:10 pm

It was 1050 Espn Radio who reported Yankees will take Hughes out on their offer. It's not coming from Hank, It's from TIm Marchand.

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Re: Twins betting Santana Stakes still 3-horse race

Post  RedMagma on Tue Jan 15, 2008 1:12 pm

Hank Steinbrenner Talks Himself, Twins Into a Tizzy


http://nymag.com/daily/intel/2008/01/hank_steinbrenner_talks_himsel.html



Anyone following the Yankees in the news for the past few months must be tired of hearing from Hank Steinbrenner about the possibility of a trade with the Minnesota Twins for young pitcher Johan Santana. It's been literally weeks and weeks of the same mantra: "I'm in charge!" "We're still open!" "Our offer was the best offer!" Even though way back on December 2, Steinbrenner set a one-week deadline for the Twins to accept his offer, it's been dragging on and on. Since today, just over a month later, papers are reporting Steinbrenner as saying actually "there were no offers on the table," we thought we'd take a little walk down memory lane of all of his bluster:

December 3, 2007: "I'm not going to be played against the Red Sox. That's not something I'll do. That's not something the Yankees should ever do, and that's I think what they're trying to do now," Yankees senior vice president Hank Steinbrenner said Sunday. "So if they want the best offer that has been offered to them, then they need to make up their minds." [Boston Globe]

December 8, 2007: "As far as the door being open, who knows? At this point, [Yankees pitchers who might be traded for Santana] Chamberlain, Hughes, Kennedy, Cabrera and Cano, they're as close to untouchable as you get… The only reason I made a point of a deadline on Santana was that I didn't want to get caught up in the circus of the winter meetings. The purpose of that deadline was trying to get something done before the winter meetings." [NYDN]
December 15, 2007: "For the near future, we're in a no-lose situation, to tell you the truth… It's up to Minnesota what they want to do and I assume they're still thinking about trading him… As far as what I'm going to do, I don't know. There's been a couple of brief calls. The door's not closed." [NYDN]
January 3, 2008: "I think the Twins realize our offer is the best one… I feel confident they're not going to trade him before checking with us one last time and I think they think we've already made the best offer." [NYDN]
January 5, 2008: "Nothing is really decided at this point… I'm still leaning towards doing it. There's others leaning not to do it. There are some others that are leaning to do it also. Disagreements within the organization. Nothing major, but just different opinions. I've changed my opinion a couple times… I always told [general manager Brian Cashman], 'I'm going to make the final decisions because when you're the owner, you should.'" [Newsday]
January 9, 2008: "There's definitely still a possibility… The bottom line is, it's my decision, but there's disagreement within the organization. I've got to keep everybody happy in the organization, including Brian… That includes my partner, which is my brother." [Newsday]
January 15, 2008: “It’s most likely that we’re going to stay with what we’ve got… That always can change — of course, that’s up to Minnesota — but there were no offers on the table." NYT]

So, let's get this straight. Reading through the above quotes, we see "offer, offer, no offer" and "I'm in charge, I'm in charge, I have to listen to everybody else." No wonder Hal Steinbrenner always keeps his mouth shut.

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Re: Twins betting Santana Stakes still 3-horse race

Post  RedMagma on Tue Jan 15, 2008 1:16 pm

Comments from Stupid Mets Fans on Hank with their Inferiority Complex


Read: Hank Steinbrenner likes to Talk

The Daily Intelligencer, a blog for New York Magazine, takes a closer look at Hank Steinbrenner’s ever-changing positions regarding his team’s pursuit of Johan Santana.

On December 3, Steinbrenner set a deadline for the Twins to accept their best offer. On December 8 and 15, Steinbrenner said the door is still open. On January 3, he stated that the Yankees had the best offer, and the Twins know it, but two weeks later he said it was likely his team would “go with what they’ve got.”

On January 14 reports indicated that the Yankees were done talking to the Twins, unless Steinbrenner had a change of heart. So, naturally, the next day, Steinbrenner told the Associated Press that the Yankees are still discussing Santana, adding, “There’s still a little talk back and forth.

…jeez, hank, you want syrup with them waffles…you’d think he was running for public office with all that back and forth…

…by the way, thanks to ruffian for the link…
Posted in Yankees on January 15th, 2008
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12 Comments »
Comment by MacD81
2008-01-15 14:22:29

This guy is starting to be more irritating than his father. He is Yankee arrogance personified.
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Comment by FBones24
2008-01-15 14:25:07

It’s actually just embarrassing. I mean this is really ridiculous.
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Comment by icedrake523
2008-01-15 14:25:39

He likes the publicity. Since no one is talking about this, everything he says gets printed.

He also wants Yankee fans to think they were in on Santana until the end.
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Comment by Mingo
2008-01-15 14:29:57

Sounds to me like a Good Cop, Bad Cop thing. I think he is trying to make the Twins sit on Santana.
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Comment by pezao
2008-01-15 14:39:20

with him playing both parts….
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Comment by KnowItAll
2008-01-15 14:31:50

say what you want about neanderthal hamk….but if he wants santana, he will GET him (just like he did with arod).
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Comment by dwright5jreyes7
2008-01-15 14:40:16

so could if i was yankee GM/ VP. hughes chamberlin melky w/e!! doesnt take much talent to get him…
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Comment by dave27
2008-01-15 14:33:18

He is a buffoon. What’s funny is he is getting a pass on being a buffoon because of his father, who people have conveniently forgotten was one of the biggest buffoons in all of North American sports.

I love the revised image of George Steinbrenner from fair weather fans who don’t realize the only reason the 90s Yankees happened was becasue George was banned from screwing them up. Between that and the strike…I mean, if George is in place in 1994 and the post-season isn’t threatened there’s no way the Yankees don’t deal for another veteran bat in exchange for AA shortstop Derek Jeter. No way.

So let’s remember that George Steinbrenner is a clown who only built a winner in the 70s by…SURPRISE…being the first owner to exploit free-agency, then ran it into the ground through comical levels of ego-driven meddling, and only when he went so far as to follow Dave Winfield with a spy was he banned from the game and sensible baseball men were able to lay the seeds for a winner.

And let’s call his idiot son what he is - a clueless moron who’s going to do daddy proud.
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Comment by gottabelieve07
2008-01-15 14:34:07

He’s a pompous and arrogant ass. I can completely seeing him saying screw you to Cashman and the rest of the management and making the Santana deal by himself.

He’s really the Mets’ biggest nemesis in this whole drama.
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Comment by gottabelieve07
2008-01-15 14:35:16

By the way Matt, brilliant work selecting the Yankee hat.

Just brilliant.
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Comment by Kalihan42
2008-01-15 14:47:10

I was a psych major for my undergraduate. I think we are looking at a classic case scitzo- affective personality disorder with multiple personality features
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Comment by zen
2008-01-15 15:02:07

do you think hammerless hank and paris wilpon are friends?
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Re: Twins betting Santana Stakes still 3-horse race

Post  RedMagma on Tue Jan 15, 2008 1:20 pm

ive never heard hank speak, but if i did…

i would imagine his voice to be high pitched, like a 12 year old girl… but also a wheeze to it like he has been smoking cigarettes his whole life.

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Re: Twins betting Santana Stakes still 3-horse race

Post  RedMagma on Tue Jan 15, 2008 1:23 pm

$40 million dollars for 19 games in three injury plagued seasons. Pavano's Yankee career amounted to 5-6 with a 4.76 ERA. Of course Pavano could have saved some face with fans and the franchise had he not lied to team officials about his injuries accident, etc... it would have helped his case had he shown a little drive and determination to come back instead of sitting on his rump collecting Yankee paychecks... and I suppose he wouldn't have been the disaster he proved to be had he not ticked off the majority of the Yankee locker room (where his constant injuries and attitude were the brunt of many jokes, according to newspapers).

Carl Pavano... money well spent.

I agree Santana wouldn't be the utter waste of a contract (and life) that Pavano proved to be, but I still dont want to give up Phil and $150 million for him.

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Re: Twins betting Santana Stakes still 3-horse race

Post  RedMagma on Tue Jan 15, 2008 1:23 pm

The Twins won't allow Santana to walk... He is GOING to be traded, it's just a matter of where...

If worst came to absolute worst, the Twins would deal him to the Mets for those minor leaguers or to the Mariners for Adam Jones + before they allowed him to walk for draft picks.

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Re: Twins betting Santana Stakes still 3-horse race

Post  RedMagma on Tue Jan 15, 2008 1:25 pm

Macnamee Found Credible


http://boards.espn.go.com/boards/mb/mb?sport=mlb&id=general&tid=2217884&lid=4

Norton didn't accept that answer, however. She followed up by asking why Mitchell believed McNamee was credible in his account of Clemens' drug use specifically.

Mitchell reminded Norton that McNamee had made an agreement with federal prosecutors that made it clear that if he lied, he faced further charges -- and that before each of his three interviews with the Mitchell investigators, he was informed by federal agents that any false statements could lead to criminal charges.

"Thus," Mitchell said, "Mr. McNamee had overwhelming incentive to tell the truth."

Mitchell then told a story we hadn't heard before. He said that just before his report was finalized, his staff went back to McNamee one last time and read him a verbatim account of how his testimony was characterized.

McNamee was then asked whether he was "comfortable" with that account. And, according to Mitchell, McNamee said he was, except for "a couple of minor suggestions." So it's noteworthy that McNamee was given a chance to back off before the slop hit the fan -- and didn't.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?entryID=3197192&name=congressional_hearings

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Re: Twins betting Santana Stakes still 3-horse race

Post  RedMagma on Tue Jan 15, 2008 1:28 pm

Rep. Waxman then jumped on board. He brought up Clemens' repeated public denials of these charges, then asked Mitchell if, despite those denials, he was still comfortable with McNamee's account of Clemens' drug use.

"I believe the statements provided to us were truthful," Mitchell replied, succinctly.

So if this was the first public litmus test of whether elected officials and baseball officials believe Clemens' attempt to deflect these charges, the clear verdict is: They don't. Emphatically.

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Re: Twins betting Santana Stakes still 3-horse race

Post  RedMagma on Tue Jan 15, 2008 1:29 pm

On January 14 reports indicated that the Yankees were done talking to the Twins, unless Steinbrenner had a change of heart. So, naturally, the next day, Steinbrenner told the Associated Press that the Yankees are still discussing Santana, adding, “There’s still a little talk back and forth.

…jeez, hank, you want syrup with them waffles…you’d think he was running for public office with all that back and forth…

…by the way, thanks to ruffian for the link…

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Re: Twins betting Santana Stakes still 3-horse race

Post  RedMagma on Tue Jan 15, 2008 1:30 pm

Mayo On Fernando Martinez and Johan Santana



http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/

Jonathan Mayo is a prominent writer on MLB.com, focusing on the minor leagues more recently. Mayo recently wrote a book called Facing Clemens, which "puts you right in the batter's box against the Rocket Man." Mayo finished the book before the steroid allegations surfaced, but it sounds like an interesting read regardless. I asked Mayo some questions for publication on MLBTR.

MLBTR: Where do you stand on Fernando Martinez? Would the Mets regret trading him and a few other prospects for one year of Johan Santana?

Mayo: There’s always the risk when you trade a young player with so much upside potential that you’ll regret trading him, just like the Astros probably regret leaving Santana unprotected in the Rule 5 draft several years back. But I think that things work a little differently in a market like New York. There’s such pressure to win immediately and there’s the financial ability to fix things via free agency or trading for high-priced players in the future.

I think Martinez has the chance to be a very special player, but it could take several years for him to reach that potential. I’d love to see him become a star in New York, but I think the Mets would have to consider dealing him if they felt that Santana is the piece they need to get over the hump and back to the World Series. Besides, who says it’d be for just one year of Santana. I think that any of the teams who have been rumored to be in the Santana hunt would make a serious run at re-upping Johan for several years after 2008.

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Re: Twins betting Santana Stakes still 3-horse race

Post  RedMagma on Tue Jan 15, 2008 1:35 pm

Iceman -

Wheres the ACTUAL evidence of Clemens guilt ???? I have never seen actual proof- checks, e-mails, phone calls, etc.

Why is everyone quick to believe a trainer over a baseball player with a solid reputation ( twenty + years ) ????

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Re: Twins betting Santana Stakes still 3-horse race

Post  RedMagma on Tue Jan 15, 2008 1:42 pm

January 15, 2008
Giants are a national sensation

Apparently the secret about your Giants is out.


http://www.nydailynews.com/blogs/giants/2008/01/giants-are-a-national-sensatio.html

Their 21-17 win over the Cowboys in Texas on Sunday was apparently a national sensation. According to the NFL, the game had 40.1 million viewers, making it the most watched show on TV since the Academy Awards (40.2 million on Feb. 25) and the most watched NFL divisional playoff game since January, 1997 (Dallas at Carolina, 42.7 million).

I think it also makes it the second most popular show of the week on TV, right behind SNY’s Friday edition of Daily News Live.

By the way, in case you want to relive the Giants-Cowboys game, the NFL Network will be airing a special, 90-minute NFL Replay version of the game on Wednesday at 8 p.m.

And that’s not the only thing the NFL Network has for you this week:

On Friday, at times to be determined, they’ll air all the traditional championship week press conferences – live from both Green Bay and Giants Stadium.

Also on Friday, at 10 p.m., they’ll air a 30-minute NFL Films’ show on the last Giants-Packers playoff tussle – “NFL’s Greatest Games: 1962 NFL Championship – Packers at Giants” (I won’t spoil the ending for you).

Finally, on Saturday at 8:30 p.m., while I’m freezing my rear off in Wisconsin, they will re-air the Packers-Giants Week 2 game in its entirety.

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Re: Twins betting Santana Stakes still 3-horse race

Post  RedMagma on Tue Jan 15, 2008 1:43 pm

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January 15, 2008
Giants are a national sensation

Apparently the secret about your Giants is out.

Their 21-17 win over the Cowboys in Texas on Sunday was apparently a national sensation. According to the NFL, the game had 40.1 million viewers, making it the most watched show on TV since the Academy Awards (40.2 million on Feb. 25) and the most watched NFL divisional playoff game since January, 1997 (Dallas at Carolina, 42.7 million).

I think it also makes it the second most popular show of the week on TV, right behind SNY’s Friday edition of Daily News Live.

By the way, in case you want to relive the Giants-Cowboys game, the NFL Network will be airing a special, 90-minute NFL Replay version of the game on Wednesday at 8 p.m.

And that’s not the only thing the NFL Network has for you this week:

On Friday, at times to be determined, they’ll air all the traditional championship week press conferences – live from both Green Bay and Giants Stadium.

Also on Friday, at 10 p.m., they’ll air a 30-minute NFL Films’ show on the last Giants-Packers playoff tussle – “NFL’s Greatest Games: 1962 NFL Championship – Packers at Giants” (I won’t spoil the ending for you).

Finally, on Saturday at 8:30 p.m., while I’m freezing my rear off in Wisconsin, they will re-air the Packers-Giants Week 2 game in its entirety.
By Ralph Vacchiano on January 15, 2008 12:40 PM | Permalink | Comments (21)

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21 Comments

The Dallas Cowboys: America's Team...FOR ME TO POOP ON.

Remember, we have no chance against the Mighty MeatPackers, either. They should take this week off and enjoy themselves in Cabo.
Posted by HughG16 on January 15, 2008 12:49 PM

Wow, I didn't realize that blogs now have advertising at the bottom of them. I hope you get paid for the NFL network for that ad.
Posted by Brad O on January 15, 2008 1:00 PM

Hugh, the Cabo references are old already. Enough.
Posted by The Original Carbo on January 15, 2008 1:06 PM

If its not Cabo references its Carbo references...

The country got to see the Giants put on some show in that Pats game and then saw them again in that Cowboys game. A lot of folks must be stunned after hearing what bums they were from the likes of the Aikmans and Howie Longs all year.
Posted by DatMel on January 15, 2008 1:10 PM

Who's announcing the game for Fox Sunday?
Posted by Drake on January 15, 2008 1:16 PM

See - this will be revenge for '62 when the "cold weather " hurt a truly gifted and superior NY team - and this in NY, no less. I think the 2007 edition will fare better. Got run and stop the run.
Posted by Lawza on January 15, 2008 1:34 PM

More on '62:

December 30, 1962
Yankee Stadium, New York
Green Bay (16) over New York Giants (7)

40 mph winds and 13 degree temps make for a ground battle. Giants cut Packer lead to 10-7 in the 3rd quarter on a blocked end-zone punt but outstanding defensive effort by Ray Nitschke (2 fumble recoveries and deflection that led to an interception) and two more Jerry Kramer field goals ice the game for the Packers.
Posted by Lawza on January 15, 2008 1:42 PM

I'm proud of you, Schwab. You managed a post without allowing your man-crush on me to distract you.
Posted by The Original Carbo on January 15, 2008 1:50 PM

Kiss, kiss
Posted by Lawza on January 15, 2008 2:00 PM

Carbo: Blow me.
Posted by HughG16 on January 15, 2008 2:01 PM

Very mature, Hugh. Any other insights and comebacks you can share with the board?
Posted by The Original Carbo on January 15, 2008 2:18 PM

Oh, man, look at this garbage: the bandwagon is filling up:

SI.com's Peter King admits he was very wrong about Tom Coughlin and the Giants, weighs in on the latest coaching news, analyzes Indy's loss and responds to a radical stats idea.

First the little guy (Lup) now the fat guy. Can John Madden be far behind?
Posted by Lawza on January 15, 2008 2:19 PM

I hate to say this, but, here goes: I agree with Carbo.
Posted by Lawza on January 15, 2008 2:20 PM

I don't think Madden ever bashed the Giants. But then I have a soft spot for the big lug because his and Summerall's voices are inextricably tied to my memories of th 80's Giants. That's before he turned into a caricature of himself but don't forget he came up with most of the insights that all the so called analysts still try to peddle as their own.
Posted by DatMel on January 15, 2008 2:42 PM

Keep all those experts off the Giants bandwagon. I want them to all be going with Favre and the Packers this Sunday, and then I want them to pick the Pats in a rout for the Super Bowl, even though they only won by three points a month earlier despite having the advantage of playing the Giants at the Meadowlands (at least that's the way things work this season).
Posted by JohnPCV on January 15, 2008 2:43 PM

"Very mature, Hugh. Any other insights and comebacks you can share with the board?"

Sure, Carbo.
Your constant negativity is an annoyance to everyone who participates in good faith on this board.
It's one thing to have a clear-eyed view of your team, and another thing entirely to cultivate an act. Your "oh, we suck, fire Coughlin, trade Eli" schtick not only illuminates your lack of football knowledge - it's beyond tiresome.

One could even say it's "old already" and call you out for it.

Of course, that would require the writer to engage you in a ridiculous bulletin board slap-fight - one of the very few things on earth more boring than reading one of your "woe-is-us"(tm) posts.

Which is why I choose a simple-yet-strong phrase that leaves absolutely no room for misunderstanding.

In conclusion: Blow me.

Posted by HughG16 on January 15, 2008 2:55 PM

I have heard Madden say (imply?) this year that the Giants come up too small in big games ("are inconsistent") to be considered top tier. But he still loves fat guys like Flozell.

You are correct, though, and I agree: Madden set the standard for all these guys and there's never been a better team that John M and Pat S. Never even been one that's close. But, on a stand alone basis, I think No. 11 is as terrific and as insightful (not as funny) as Madden was.
Posted by Lawza on January 15, 2008 2:55 PM

all I can say about this series of comments is: LOL.

Ralph, thanks for the coverage info.
Posted by fusionhead on January 15, 2008 3:08 PM

Well you have to admit dude, stop the season after the second Skins game and Madden would have been right. Then all of a sudden it gelled in that Pats game and the G-Men haven't looked back.

Well if I have a soft spot for Madden just for calling #11's games then I have no objectivity when it comes to #11 himself. You see some jack had the nerve to accuse Phil of being a homer? See the link below:

http://blogs.nypost.com/sports/nyp_tv/archives/2008/01/phil_simms_take.html
Posted by DatMel on January 15, 2008 3:13 PM

Curt, Terry, Howie and Jimmy didn't know what to say after the game after all of them picked Dallas...they were shocked.....
Joe #uck and Troy don't know who to root for this week now that Dallas has exited. maybe they'll jump on the wagon.. it drove right by them the other day..
Posted by Craig NY on January 15, 2008 3:22 PM

To Carbo and Fussionhead and Giant Gino and Datmel and to all the other low class "fans":

Fact is that I AM better than you. I love football and can communicate and debate without insults. You all seem to lack the intellect neccessary to do this.

And it's really tough for punks like you all to scare someone through a computer. Funny how brave jerks like you are at a laptop or in a big crowd of bullies.

You do not represent the majority of Giants Fans. We have class. You don't. So will continue to offer apologies to people you insult just to show them that you do not represent my NY Giants. People like me do.
Posted by angeltattoo on January 15, 2008 3:33 PM

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Re: Twins betting Santana Stakes still 3-horse race

Post  RedMagma on Tue Jan 15, 2008 1:45 pm

January 15, 2008




http://www.nydailynews.com/blogs/giants/
Eli cools off in the cold

Upon further review, it turns out Eli Manning isn’t so good in the cold weather after all.

Maybe you’ll find this funny. Maybe not. But about a month ago I wrote a story on Manning’s weather-related troubles, and I followed up with a blog item on how he actually was pretty good when the temperature dipped below 29 degrees. I was amazed by that fact, actually, and a little skeptical. But it came from the Elias Sports Bureau and they are the keeper of all sports records. They’re also pretty good at their job, so it had to be true.

But alas, it was not so. Our intrepid Blahger, Filip Bondy followed up with Elias last night for an updated story for tomorrow’s paper on how Manning fares in the cold – a timely topic in advance of the NFC championship game in Green Bay. And … well, it turns out Elias left out a very important detail when they researched this for me back in mid-December:

They gave me stats for five games Manning played when the temperature outside was 29 degrees or lower.

But four of those games were played in domes.

Doh!

So, upon further review, Manning’s numbers do indeed drop like a stone as the weather gets colder. The updated chart is below (courtesy, again, of Elias). Now keep in mind, this chart is based on temperature at kickoff and things can change dramatically during a game (The game in Buffalo three weeks ago, for example, started at 52 degrees and ended in a blizzard). It also doesn’t take into account any other factors – wind, rain, quality of opponent, injuries, etc.

For the record (according to Elias), Manning has played only one game in his four-year career where the kickoff was below 29 degrees. On Dec. 26, 2004 in the second-to-last game of his rookie season, he lost 23-22 in Cincinnati, where the temperature at kickoff was 24.

The forecast for kickoff Sunday night in Green Bay is calling for a temperature around 9

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