Marquez

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Marquez

Post  RedMagma on Wed Jan 16, 2008 12:33 pm

Are you kidding me?

How many Groundballs put out that Wang has last year

He was second in groundballs out in Al last year.

I guess GB outs doesn't count in Fantasy baseball


http://proxy.espn.go.com/chat/chatESPN?event_id=18837

Max, (NY, NY): Howdy Jim. I'm hearing talk that scouts are split and some prefer Jeff Marquez to Ian Kennedy. I've been hearing about Marquez for a little while but I haven't seen him pitch or heard a real scouting report on him. Power arm? Finesse guy? Deep repertoire? What does he project as, front end or back? Inquiring minds want to know.

SportsNation Jim Callis: (2:25 PM ET ) I'd still give the edge to Kennedy because I think he pitches above his stuff, but Marquez has better stuff. His power sinker is a true plus pitch with good velo and movement, and his curveball and changeup are solid. I could see him as a No. 3 starter

There you have it Marquez will be #3 starter in the majors and He's better than Masterson.

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Re: Marquez

Post  RedMagma on Wed Jan 16, 2008 12:36 pm

http://proxy.espn.go.com/chat/chatESPN?event_id=18837

Max, (NY, NY): Howdy Jim. I'm hearing talk that scouts are split and some prefer Jeff Marquez to Ian Kennedy. I've been hearing about Marquez for a little while but I haven't seen him pitch or heard a real scouting report on him. Power arm? Finesse guy? Deep repertoire? What does he project as, front end or back? Inquiring minds want to know.

SportsNation Jim Callis: (2:25 PM ET ) I'd still give the edge to Kennedy because I think he pitches above his stuff, but Marquez has better stuff. His power sinker is a true plus pitch with good velo and movement, and his curveball and changeup are solid. I could see him as a No. 3 starter

There you have it Marquez will be #3 starter in the majors and He's better than Masterson.
Marquez's former first round sandwich pick which Yankees got for losing David Wells when He signed with D-backs. Meanwhile Masterson is drafted in later rounds. Oops.. Meaning that Marquez is better talent than Masterson. According to scouts and Baseball America , Masterson's future role in will be in The Bullpen/Setup meanwhile Marquez is #3 or #4 starter in Big Leagues.

Yes Better pick, better talent.

That's according to BA not by me Marquez can be #3 starter in future.

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Re: Marquez

Post  RedMagma on Wed Jan 16, 2008 12:41 pm

Rotoworld Ranks Most Valuable Starters for 2008

http://www.rotoauthority.com/2008/01/top-78-starting.html

Rotoworld ranked the top 75 starting pitchers of 2008. Keep in mind, this list ranks the most valuable starting pitchers for a fantasy league, not a major league baseball team. Although, given that fantasy leagues are based on the statistical produciton of major league players, the list does in a way rank how valuable these starters are.

Rnk Name $ VAL
1 Johan Santana $ 43.28
2 Jake Peavy $ 38.71
3 Brandon Webb $ 30.40
4 C.C. Sabathia $ 28.96
5 Cole Hamels $ 28.71
6 Josh Beckett $ 27.49
7 Erik Bedard $ 25.71
8 John Smoltz $ 25.62
9 Scott Kazmir $ 25.53
10 Dan Haren $ 25.52
11 Roy Oswalt $ 25.41
12 Aaron Harang $ 25.16
13 Javier Vazquez $ 24.06
14 Daisuke Matsuzaka $ 23.97
15 Rich Hill $ 23.58
16 Felix Hernandez $ 22.54
17 John Lackey $ 22.20
18 Justin Verlander $ 21.84
19 Roy Halladay $ 21.45
20 Chris Young $ 20.18
21 Matt Cain $ 19.98
22 Yovani Gallardo $ 19.84
23 Carlos Zambrano $ 19.68
24 James Shields $ 19.35
25 Tim Lincecum $ 18.98
26 Pedro Martinez $ 17.18
27 A.J. Burnett $ 16.76
28 Brett Myers $ 16.37
29 Kelvim Escobar $ 15.85
30 Ben Sheets $ 15.58
31 Ted Lilly $ 15.51
32 John Maine $ 15.24
33 Tim Hudson $ 15.04
34 Francisco Liriano $ 14.67
35 Ian Snell $ 14.61
36 Greg Maddux $ 14.60
37 Derek Lowe $ 14.30
38 Fausto Carmona $ 13.19
39 Chad Billingsley $ 13.08
40 Jered Weaver $ 12.85
41 Joe Blanton $ 12.72
42 Jeremy Bonderman $ 11.04
43 Adam Wainwright $ 10.81
44 Jeff Francis $ 10.18
45 Bronson Arroyo $ 10.16
46 Brad Penny $ 9.67
47 Tom Gorzelanny $ 9.66
48 Chuck James $ 9.29
49 Curt Schilling $ 9.21
50 Randy Johnson $ 9.01
51 Chien-Ming Wang $ 8.40
52 Joba Chamberlain $ 7.90
53 David Bush $ 7.87
54 Andy Pettitte $ 7.70
55 Oliver Perez $ 7.62
56 Dustin McGowan $ 7.60
57 Barry Zito $ 7.40
58 Phil Hughes $ 6.36
59 Hiroki Kuroda $ 6.33
60 Kevin Slowey $ 5.31
61 Zack Greinke $ 4.23
62 Mark Buehrle $ 4.18
63 Gil Meche $ 3.88
64 Mike Mussina $ 3.59
65 Dontrelle Willis $ 3.43
66 Shaun Marcum $ 3.35
67 Scott Baker $ 3.23
68 Jason Bergmann $ 2.76
69 Clay Buchholz $ 2.65
70 Andy Sonnanstine $ 2.20
71 Jon Garland $ 1.48
72 Ervin Santana $ 1.37
73 Jason Schmidt $ 1.29
74 Kevin Millwood $ 1.02
75 Rich Harden $ 1.00
76 Matt Garza $ 0.90
77 Jake Westbrook $ 0.31
78 Micah Owings $ 0.27

In the "overrated file" you'll find Chamberlain, Carmona, Penny, Harden, Garza, Willis, Wang, Hughes and Zambrano.

Wang's overrated? I guess 19 Wins doesn't count in Fantasy baseball for Wang and How many Groundballs put out.

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Re: Marquez

Post  RedMagma on Wed Jan 16, 2008 12:49 pm

1. Derek Jeter - He's a good player, but he's been overrated for many many years now. From '96-'01 he was statistically the worst everyday defender at any position over that time period. So he wasn't just bad, he was the living embodiment of bad. He was the shortstop antichrist, the kryptonite to Ozzie Smith's alien-superpowered glove...

2. Carlos Zambrano - Ace my @$$. While he eats innings like Bartolo Colon eats twinkies, you never know what this headcase will give you from start to start. He's as likely to give up 5 ER in 5-6 innings as 2 ER in 8. He's just not consistant at all. The whip scares me, the Ks are overvalued...I'm just glad that most "aces" are far more reliable (and talented).

3. Jeff Franceour - Just look at that man's OBP. Yuck!

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Re: Marquez

Post  RedMagma on Wed Jan 16, 2008 12:53 pm

The Yanks Got Balls
City Documents Show Team Billed Taxpayers for Souvenirs, Bar Tabs


http://www.villagevoice.com/news/0740,demause,77974,2.html



Billing the city for the lobbyists he hired to push his new stadium (now taking shape across the street from the soon-to-be-demolished House That Ruth Built) was, it turns out, the least of George Steinbrenner's chutzpah. According to documents obtained from the parks department's archives via the Freedom of Information Law, the Yanks submitted to the city for reimbursement such "stadium planning" costs as a dozen crystal baseballs presented as a gift by the team, and bar tabs for Yankees execs—plus a whopping $9 million in expenses incurred the year after the team's sweetheart-lease clause expired. And it's become increasingly clear that city officials diligently looked the other way while this was taking place.

The subsidies date back to a provision inserted into the Yankees' and Mets' leases by Mayor Rudy Giuliani on his last day in office, allowing the two teams to deduct from their city rent "planning costs" for their hoped-for new stadiums. This was specifically defined to include both the salaries of team employees working on stadium planning and unspecified "consulting" services—a clause that, as first reported by the Voice last year, allowed the Yankees to bill taxpayers for such items as the political operatives who lobbied the state and city for their new stadium deal; the salaries of team execs Randy Levine, Lonn Trost, and Hal and Hank Steinbrenner; and even the lawyers who drew up the new lease in the first place.

Mayor Mike Bloomberg has long insisted that his hands were tied by the Giuliani lease. But the latest documents show that Bloomberg's largesse to the Steinbrenner clan has gone far beyond even what was allowed by his predecessor. The original lease provisions allowed the teams to deduct "all [stadium planning] costs and expenses incurred by or on behalf of Tenant during the Credit Period"—defined as from January 1, 2001, through December 31, 2005—up to a limit of $5 million per calendar year. By the end of 2005, however, the Yankees had only spent down $16 million of their allotted $25 million.

According to the parks department, the team was nonetheless allowed to deduct an additional $9,035,636 from its rent the following year, after the stadium-planning clause had expired. (The Yankees got an additional no-questions-asked $5 million rent break in 2006, as well as similar reductions in 2007 and 2008, courtesy of a clause added by Bloomberg as part of the final stadium deal.) Mayoral spokesman Jason Post says the lease was amended by Bloomberg in 2005 to allow late deductions "because the project was delayed."

The team, meanwhile, was busily supplying boxes of receipts to the city to justify its deductions. But whereas the earlier receipts were limited to stadium-related expenses—although questionable ones, like the $700-an-hour lobbyist bills and restaurant tabs for engineering consultants—by late 2005, the files had begun to look like those of an organization hastily trying to spend down its account by billing the public for everything but the kitchen sink. Among the latest crop of items the city apparently reimbursed the Yankees for:

Tens of thousands of dollars in "gifts" of Yankees merchandise to unspecified recipients in late 2005. One receipt alone, submitted by team marketing vice president Debbie Tymon on September 10, totaled $1,620 for "12 crystal baseballs" from the Yankees' team store—plus an $80 rush charge.

More than $26,000 in food and bar tabs at the Stadium Club during the two 2005 postseason games played at Yankee Stadium.

Innumerable small charges for such items as umpire meals, a tow-truck bill for a team exec, and the cost of shipping batting helmets to Tampa Bay during a Yankees road trip there.

Bettina Damiani of Good Jobs New York, a subsidy-watchdog group that has been a vocal critic of the Yankees project, says: "Every time you turn a corner, there's something going on with this project. Every level of government that should have protected taxpayers and residents isn't there."

There's no indication that city officials looked at the receipts once they were submitted. Parks department spokesman Warner Johnston says the Yankees were allowed to take the rent deductions based on their own self-reported numbers, and that it's up to the city comptroller's office to audit the rent credits.

But while City Comptroller William Thompson initially blasted the Giuliani leases for denying the city "pre-audit authority over the level and nature of spending," the presumptive 2009 mayoral candidate has been less than enthusiastic about using his power to audit the Yanks' claims after the fact. Thompson spokeswoman Laura Rivera tells the Voice that no audits have been done of the planning deductions since December 2004. Citing office policy, she would not comment on when—or whether—another audit would take place.

Until one does, there's apparently no way of knowing precisely which expenses the Yankees intend to claim to justify their $5 million rent break. A team spokesperson wouldn't comment on specific deductions, and both the parks department and the mayor's office referred all questions to the comptroller's office.

Dick Dadey, executive director of the Citizens Union, says the latest revelations only make the Yankees' sweetheart deal even sweeter: "I'm not surprised there is lax oversight over an ill-defined phrase in the agreement. But to allow the Yankees to include such ludicrous expenses as part of their stadium planning defies any reasonable person's sense of logic."

Damiani points the finger at Bloomberg, who has built his reputation on minding the store: "To have nobody doing checks and balances on the New York Yankees is an embarrassment
."

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Re: Marquez

Post  RedMagma on Wed Jan 16, 2008 1:01 pm

It' Ok, Rob, Everyone hates the Yankees by Media and love The Redsox. As a Yankee Fan, Good Luck to Royals and I support Trey Hillman Hey Rob How do you feel Trey Hillman being as manager of the Royals since He coach the Yankees? Do you hate him as well?


Espn- Rob Neyer admits that He hates Yankees on his blog

http://insider.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?entryID=3199532&name=Neyer_Rob
I don't particularly like the Yankees, which I come by honestly (video here. I don't particularly like Yankee Stadium, which is a matter of taste. But I love baseball history and you can't write baseball's history without the Yankees and Yankee Stadium, and this photo does send a happy shiver up my spine (even as I think about what lousy public policy this is).

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Re: Marquez

Post  RedMagma on Wed Jan 16, 2008 1:12 pm

Wednesday Wangdoodles


http://insider.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?entryID=3199532&name=Neyer_Rob


• I've linked to a fair amount of studies utilizing MLB's PITCHf/x data, but Mike Fast offers a Pitchf/x primer that should serve as a great boon to anyone out there who'd like to do their own work with the data (and the primer's worth reading even if you, like me, are merely a consumer of the studies).

• Home Run Derby offers this super-cool series of ballpark demolition videos (YouTube bonus: 2:30 into a video about the Brooklyn Cyclones, footage of Ebbets Field under the wrecking ball).

• Still thinking about the Troy Glaus/Scott Rolen trade? Mop Up Duty is, and while their conclusion -- Cards win! Cards win! -- is not new, their graphical comparison of the two players is unlike anything I've seen. And I hope to see more.

• BP's Joe Sheehan offers his list of nine breakout candidates. In my chat yesterday I said David Wright is going to be the best player of the next five years, but Sheehan reminds me that Wright might not even be the best third baseman of the next five years.

• I don't particularly like the Yankees, which I come by honestly (video here. I don't particularly like Yankee Stadium, which is a matter of taste. But I love baseball history and you can't write baseball's history without the Yankees and Yankee Stadium, and this photo does send a happy shiver up my spine (even as I think about what lousy public policy this is).

• Steven Goldman makes the Hall of Fame case for Goose Gossage and wonders why it took so long for him to be elected. I've been arguing for Gossage for years, but I also believe that one can make the case that the bar for relief pitchers should be set extraordinarily high, and (further) that no reliever has done enough to deserve election. That horse is long out of the barn, though, and once Rollie Fingers and Bruce Sutter established a bar, the Goose cleared it with ease.

• Weird $@%&# of the Week: As you watch this -- and I promise you, it'll be your most rewarding five minutes of the week -- please respectfully remember: this man has won an Emmy Award.



QUOTE(bizast1 @ Jan 16 2008, 02:29 PM) *
There you have it Marquez will be #3 starter in the majors and He's better than Masterson.


Yes, Marquez can be a number 3, for the Washington Nationals not for the New York Yankees. I still firmly believe he isn’t a number 3 and he’s not better than Masterson so please stop it.

We can trade chat transcripts all day.

Jim Callis in his latest interview with sox prospect.com [1-13-08]
QUOTE
And though I projected Masterson as a setup man in Boston, that doesn't mean that's all he could be. I think he has a special sinker with an uncanny combination of velocity and movement and that he could be a No. 3 starter if needed or a closer if needed.

http://soxprospects.blogspot.com/


The more I hear about Marquez, the more I like. Another guy i'd hold onto since i'm liking his sinker/curveball/changeup combo.

I don't know if he's better than Masterson, in fact, I don't really care since it's getting old comparing Sox and Yankee prospects.

But I do like Marquez. He could be another one who makes an impact in a year or two. Along with Horne, Sanchez, Melancon, Whelan... and on, and on, and on it goes.

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Re: Marquez

Post  RedMagma on Wed Jan 16, 2008 8:40 pm

Sid Hartman: Yankees officials disagree over asking price for Twins' Santana

http://www.startribune.com/sports/13851951.html

The Bronx Bombers would love to see the lefthander in pinstripes, but front-office personnel differ on how much he should cost in salary and young talent.

"At this point I think that it kind of looks like we probably won't do it, but that doesn't mean I don't want to," Hank said. "I'm kind of back and forth on it, and some people don't want to do it because of the money."

"Just strictly because of the money, they are advising not to," Hank said. "But ... nobody would ever say 'don't do it' as far as getting Santana because nobody could say that. He's one of the two best pitchers in baseball, but I'm running into resistance.

"I think we could get him, but it's just a matter [of what] to give up. Certainly we don't want to give up [righthander] Phil Hughes and [center fielder] Melky Cabrera, but you know, look what you're getting.

I don't want to say what I would give, because Minnesota will claim I'm tampering. Yes, the door definitely isn't completely closed."

Hank said he believes the Mets are serious about trying to trade for Santana. "I think they may need him worse than we do or the Red Sox do," he said. "It's just a matter of do they have what it takes to trade for him."

Loudmouth Hank isn't stop talking .Be quiet. Is Hank ready to give up and surrender Johan to Mets?

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Re: Marquez

Post  RedMagma on Wed Jan 16, 2008 8:56 pm

Tim Kurkjian: ''I think Santana ends up with Yankees.''
I heard an interview on MLB Radio on XM earlier this evening with Tim Kurkjian...

When asked about Santana, he said he thought at the start he thought Santana would be dealt to the Yankees and that he still believes that is where Santana will end up when it's all said and done.

"The Yankees have more money than anybody else and a lot of good prospects," said Kurkjian.


The yankees could get johan in like 10 minutes but its all up to do they really want him or not. I think its just a phone call away from getting but they dont know if they want to pay him. I really dont mind paying him with the last year of yankees stadium this year and the new stadium coming in. The yankees will have the most money by far in the next 5 years.

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Re: Marquez

Post  RedMagma on Wed Jan 16, 2008 9:03 pm

Papelbon was given advice by Mariano and little encouragement



Papelbon cites Mariano Rivera--Commercial Dispatch

http://xmmlbchat.blogspot.com/

"The Boston Red Sox can thank a member of the New York Yankees for one thing.

* If it wasn't for a little encouragement from Yankee closer Mariano Rivera, Jonathan Papelbon may not have developed into the type of pitcher capable of finishing a World Series game with a save for the Red Sox.

Already a pretty good closer himself, Papelbon felt the need of getting a little advice from Rivera during the 2006 All-Star Game.

* “Even though he plays for the Yankees, I sat down and talked with him for about an hour after the All-Star Game was over and just tried to pick his brain,” Papelbon said. “At the end of our conversation, he said, ‘Pap look, you're going to follow me, but you are going to do it for a different team and just always remember that closers have to have a short term memory. You have to walk into the office the next day (after you blow a save) and act like nothing happened.' I've kind of taken that approach.”


Papelbon, a former Mississippi State pitcher, was introduced to the Humphrey Coliseum crowd during Tuesday night's basketball game against Kentucky."....

* From article in The Commercial Dispatch by Danny P. Smith, "Papelbon Can Thank a Yankee for Advice,"


Ht : Susan Mullen and his blog

Would Dice-k would do same thing and help Iguana how to pitch If He was put in that situation like Papelbon?

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Re: Marquez

Post  RedMagma on Wed Jan 16, 2008 9:14 pm

Hughes got his own Blog

Ht to Peter Abraham of Lohud

http://philhughes.wordpress.com/


Phil Hughes is already down in Tampa working out. He also set up his own weblog. It’s brand new but he has two posts up and we’re told there will be more on the way.

We’re pleased to say that Phil linked to this blog, so it’s the least we can do to return the favor.

Now that Phil is blogging, maybe we can get some other Yankees on line. I even have titles for them:

Tales From the Trainers Room by Carl Pavano.
I’ve Actually Got Plenty To Say by Chien-Ming Wang.
The Alex Rodriguez Weblog by Cynthia Rodriguez.
Krazy Kyle’s Korner by Kyle Farnsworth.
Ask Hank by Brian Cashman.

Register those domain names now. They could be worth something.

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Re: Marquez

Post  RedMagma on Wed Jan 16, 2008 9:26 pm

i really just want santana to stay on the twins and hit FA after the 2008 season

we got like 80+ mil coming off the books after this season

we better sign mark teixeira if he hits FA too, especially if we don't get johan



I'm with you on Santana, BUT he will never hit free agency, so that can't happen... If the Bombers want him, they will have to trade for him because the Twins will deal him.

Tex is another story... And based on nothing other than the way they've approached first base for this season, I think there is a real chance the Yanks are planning ahead for Teixiera.

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Re: Marquez

Post  RedMagma on Wed Jan 16, 2008 9:33 pm

It will cost The Yankees to give up Hughes for Santana. Hughes can be good as Santana I think. How do we know that Santana could breakdown any moment after spending so much money to sign him?

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Re: Marquez

Post  RedMagma on Wed Jan 16, 2008 9:39 pm

QUOTE
Hank Steinbrenner, son of New York Yankees owner George, made it clear Wednesday that the club still has some interest in making a deal for Twins lefthander Johan Santana, but there is not a unanimous opinion among club officials whether they should pay the Twins' asking price.

"At this point I think that it kind of looks like we probably won't do it, but that doesn't mean I don't want to," Hank said. "I'm kind of back and forth on it, and some people don't want to do it because of the money."
QUOTE
Brian Cashman, the Yankees general manager, and Hank's brother, Hal, also are not willing to give away a lot of young talent to get Santana.

"Just strictly because of the money, they are advising not to," Hank said. "But ... nobody would ever say 'don't do it' as far as getting Santana because nobody could say that. He's one of the two best pitchers in baseball, but I'm running into resistance.

"I think we could get him, but it's just a matter [of what] to give up. Certainly we don't want to give up [righthander] Phil Hughes and [center fielder] Melky Cabrera, but you know, look what you're getting.


QUOTE
"I don't want to say what I would give, because Minnesota will claim I'm tampering. Yes, the door definitely isn't completely closed."


laugh.gif

Hank is the gift that keeps on giving.


http://www.startribune.com/sports/13851951.html

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Re: Marquez

Post  RedMagma on Wed Jan 16, 2008 9:42 pm

January 16th, 2008 at 11:18 pm

Why should I show respect to Phil?

Because he has ankles as fragile as my grandmothers antiques?

Or because he pitched like a 3rd slot starter most of the year?

Oh I know, because he’s SOOOOOOOOO HOTTT OMGGG!!!

He’s not expressing what he likes, he’s advertising. Give me quality content and I won’t criticize.

Tell me how you’re feeling for the start of the season. How’s your hammy? How do you feel about a rotation plagued with rookies? What are you going to do for the New York Yankees in 2008?

Don’t give me LRG clothing.

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Re: Marquez

Post  RedMagma on Wed Jan 16, 2008 9:43 pm

Did Papelbon mention that He try to follow Mariano Footsteps and Be The best Closer He can be?

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Re: Marquez

Post  RedMagma on Wed Jan 16, 2008 9:47 pm

Papelbon Credits Rivera

Via the Commercial Dispatch:

http://www.cdispatch.com/articles/2008/01/16/sports/sports3.txt

The Boston Red Sox can thank a member of the New York Yankees for one thing.

If it wasn't for a little encouragement from Yankee closer Mariano Rivera, Jonathan Papelbon may not have developed into the type of pitcher capable of finishing a World Series game with a save for the Red Sox.

Already a pretty good closer himself, Papelbon felt the need of getting a little advice from Rivera during the 2006 All-Star Game.

“Even though he plays for the Yankees, I sat down and talked with him for about an hour after the All-Star Game was over and just tried to pick his brain,” Papelbon said. “At the end of our conversation, he said, ‘Pap look, you're going to follow me, but you are going to do it for a different team and just always remember that closers have to have a short term memory. You have to walk into the office the next day (after you blow a save) and act like nothing happened.' I've kind of taken that approach.”

This is one instance where I wish Mo was a little less overall sweetie pie and a little more old school Bob Gibson. Oh, well, these are different times.

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Re: Marquez

Post  RedMagma on Wed Jan 16, 2008 9:51 pm

Sid Hartman: Yankees officials disagree over asking price for Twins' Santana


http://www.startribune.com/sports/13851951.html



"I think we could get him, but it's just a matter [of what] to give up.
Certainly we don't want to give up [righthander] Phil Hughes and
[center fielder] Melky Cabrera, but you know, look what you're getting.


I don't want to say what I would give, because Minnesota will claim
I'm tampering. Yes, the door definitely isn't completely closed."
Hank said he believes the Mets are serious about trying to trade for
Santana. "I think they may need him worse than we do or the Red Sox
do," he said. "It's just a matter of do they have what it takes to
trade for him."

[/quote]


Loudmouth Hank please stop talking and Be quiet. Hank's recent comments that He's ready to give up and surrender Johan to Mets? Hank will be happy OF mets got Santana rather than Redsox,

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Re: Marquez

Post  RedMagma on Wed Jan 16, 2008 9:56 pm

Fans might not be happy with Santana trade


http://www.startribune.com/sports/twins/13853476.html


The Twins are expected to trade their star lefthander before spring training, and it might not be for any immediate help.

By BASEBALL INSIDER JOE CHRISTENSEN, Star Tribune

Last update: January 16, 2008 - 10:31 PM




The Johan Santana trade discussions have reached a quiet but crucial stage.

The Twins know what they can get. And they realize none of the packages will appease their fans, who might never forgive them for trading the two-time Cy Young Award winner.

Still, Twins officials privately say they think Santana will be traded before spring training opens next month.

For now, the Twins and the three most interested Santana suitors -- the Mets, Yankees and Red Sox -- are regrouping, trying to decide how far beyond their comfort zones they will go to close this deal. The end result might leave some Twins fans gasping for breath.

It's possible the Twins will trade Santana without landing one player who is universally recognized as a big help in 2008.

Lately, the Twins have seemed most intrigued with the Mets' offer.

The Mets are offering some combination of the following five players: Carlos Gomez, Fernando Martinez, Deolis Guerra, Philip Humber and Kevin Mulvey.

Gomez, 22, could step in immediately as the Twins' starting center fielder, but some scouts are skeptical about his bat.

The Twins are much higher on Martinez, 19, and Guerra, 18, even though they realize both might be in the minors until 2010.

As for Humber and Mulvey, neither projects as better than a No. 4 starter.

But if the Red Sox and Yankees don't improve their offers -- and the Twins have reason to believe they won't -- Santana could wind up with the Mets.

The Twins would make that deal and step into a public relations nightmare.

The media isn't kind at those moments. Just look at Twins history.

When they traded Chuck Knoblauch to the Yankees in February 1998, then-General Manager Terry Ryan was ripped for not getting New York to surrender prospects Ricky Ledee, Ramiro Mendoza and Luis de los Santos.

The Twins settled for Eric Milton, Cristian Guzman, Brian Buchanan and Danny Mota. None was expected to reach the big leagues that first season, but Milton did, joining the starting rotation. Guzman took over at shortstop in 1999.

The headline writers had a field day. A sampling:

"Twins' Ryan booted this one."

"Stealing second."

"Deal reveals Minny madness."

Mendoza remained a key reliever and occasional starter for the Yankees. But de los Santos went on to appear in only three big-league games.

Ledee was the quintessential five-tool prospect. The common criticism went, "How could the Twins trade a four-time All-Star and not get Ledee?"

Well, Ledee never matched the hype. He retired last season after years of failing to impress as a big-league regular.

Milton and Guzman started the 1997 season at Class A. When they joined the Twins the following year, most people said, who?

Both became All-Stars.

Knoblauch played in four World Series for the Yankees, but the trade paid huge dividends for the Twins.

Minnesota eventually traded Milton to Philadelphia for Carlos Silva and Nick Punto, and Buchanan got traded to San Diego for another little-known minor leaguer named Jason Bartlett.

If the Twins don't get Phil Hughes or Jacoby Ellsbury for Santana, many will look at the holes they have left for 2008 and judge the trade as a failure. But maybe Hughes and Ellsbury will never match the hype.

Time will be the true judge.

In 2003, some thought the Twins were fleeced when they sent A.J. Pierzynski to the Giants for Joe Nathan, Boof Bonser and Francisco Liriano.

That day, Giants GM Brian Sabean said, "It's not often that you can send a reliever and two unproven prospects for a front-line, lefthanded-hitting All-Star catcher."

Yeah, silly Twins.


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Re: Marquez

Post  RedMagma on Wed Jan 16, 2008 10:03 pm

"Deal reveals Minny madness."

Mendoza remained a key reliever and occasional starter for the Yankees. But de los Santos went on to appear in only three big-league games.

Ledee was the quintessential five-tool prospect. The common criticism went, "How could the Twins trade a four-time All-Star and not get Ledee?"

Well, Ledee never matched the hype. He retired last season after years of failing to impress as a big-league regular.

Milton and Guzman started the 1997 season at Class A. When they joined the Twins the following year, most people said, who?

Both became All-Stars.

Knoblauch played in four World Series for the Yankees, but the trade paid huge dividends for the Twins.

Minnesota eventually traded Milton to Philadelphia for Carlos Silva and Nick Punto, and Buchanan got traded to San Diego for another little-known minor leaguer named Jason Bartlett.

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Re: Marquez

Post  RedMagma on Wed Jan 16, 2008 10:11 pm

The Mets, though, are said to want to limit their offer of an extension to Santana to five years, and an executive with another team wondered why Santana would approve a trade to a team that won't offer the six years he's thought to be seeking. Word is that Santana wants close to $150 million over six years, with perhaps $5 million coming in a signing bonus, to bring his 2008 salary in line with baseball's highest-paid pitchers -- Carlos Zambrano and Barry Zito. Santana's trade value is limited because he is so close to free agency and will command an extension at essentially market value.


• Righthanders Kyle Lohse and Livan Hernandez remain unsigned. Either could be a candidate for the Mets if they fail to land Santana.


PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 9:51 pm Post subject: Reply with quote
Quote:
Hank Steinbrenner, son of New York Yankees owner George, made it clear Wednesday that the club still has some interest in making a deal for Twins lefthander Johan Santana, but there is not a unanimous opinion among club officials whether they should pay the Twins' asking price.

"At this point I think that it kind of looks like we probably won't do it, but that doesn't mean I don't want to," Hank said. "I'm kind of back and forth on it, and some people don't want to do it because of the money."

Hank said the Yankees would not give Santana a seven-year guaranteed contract calling for $140 million.

Brian Cashman, the Yankees general manager, and Hank's brother, Hal, also are not willing to give away a lot of young talent to get Santana.

"Just strictly because of the money, they are advising not to," Hank said. "But ... nobody would ever say 'don't do it' as far as getting Santana because nobody could say that. He's one of the two best pitchers in baseball, but I'm running into resistance.

"I think we could get him, but it's just a matter [of what] to give up. Certainly we don't want to give up [righthander] Phil Hughes and [center fielder] Melky Cabrera, but you know, look what you're getting.

"... It really comes down to if I want to do it, I can do it, but I want to try and keep everybody happy. I think the situation's probably the same in Boston. I think John Henry, the owner there, wants to do it. He wants to get him, too, but others don't. So he's just trying to keep everybody happy.

"I don't want to say what I would give, because Minnesota will claim I'm tampering. Yes, the door definitely isn't completely closed."

Hank said he believes the Mets are serious about trying to trade for Santana. "I think they may need him worse than we do or the Red Sox do," he said. "It's just a matter of do they have what it takes to trade for him."


~Minneapolis Star Tribune

He reminds me of the Steinbrenner character on Seinfeld.


How's is Steingrabber running his mouth about Santana not tampering?

Seriously, it's like a play by play of his thought process. Generally that's not good for someone who wants to make a big time trade.



PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 10:10 pm Post subject: Reply with quote
Metro2007 wrote:
The Mets, though, are said to want to limit their offer of an extension to Santana to five years, and an executive with another team wondered why Santana would approve a trade to a team that won't offer the six years he's thought to be seeking. Word is that Santana wants close to $150 million over six years, with perhaps $5 million coming in a signing bonus, to bring his 2008 salary in line with baseball's highest-paid pitchers -- Carlos Zambrano and Barry Zito. Santana's trade value is limited because he is so close to free agency and will command an extension at essentially market value.


• Righthanders Kyle Lohse and Livan Hernandez remain unsigned. Either could be a candidate for the Mets if they fail to land Santana.


If the Mets agree to a deal for Santana and then blow it because they wont go over 5 years they will be one of the biggest laughingstocks in all of pro sports and the casual Mets fan, the WFAN fan will go NUTS. Imagine waking up to read the paper "Mets agree to deal for Santana" and then getting all excited and then the next day "Mets fail to reach deal with Santana, balk over extra year"

i'm not sure he knows the rules at all.

This story bores me.

Sign Lohse NSJ says he's a stud. Good enough 4 me

I think the "The Mets are said to want . . . " is a pretty thin statement.

So it's not one I'd get worked up about.


I understand that. I am just saying.... the backlash around the city, around the league, on this site... ANYWHERE would be INCREDIBLE. No insurance or not, your willing to give up Gomez, Guerra, Humber and Mulvey (possibly even Fernando too), get the fans hopes up and balk over an extra year.... it would be INSANE the media and fan reaction

Omar's playing a game to get an option for the 6th year, easily ascertainable.

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Re: Marquez

Post  RedMagma on Wed Jan 16, 2008 10:14 pm

Why Do YOU Hate the Yankees
YankeeInMD8 Post #1: Jan 16, 3:44 pm Quote | Report Violation
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As a dyed in the wool Yankee fan, I've always been curious about something. If you're a true blue Yankee hater, can you tell us why? It can't just be because they have the most trophies. It's got to be something else. Well, here's your chance haters. Let us have it! Why do YOU hate the Yankees. Don't hold back!


Lundy1997 Post #2: 12:04 am Quote | Report Violation
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As a dyed in the wool Yankee fan, I've always been curious about something. If you're a true blue Yankee hater, can you tell us why? It can't just be because they have the most trophies. It's got to be something else. Well, here's your chance haters. Let us have it! Why do YOU hate the Yankees. Don't hold back!

why would you care

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Re: Marquez

Post  RedMagma on Wed Jan 16, 2008 10:17 pm

Would you pay for legal fines after I sue you for assaulting me ?

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Re: Marquez

Post  RedMagma on Wed Jan 16, 2008 10:20 pm

The Mets are offering some combination of the following five players: Carlos Gomez, Fernando Martinez, Deolis Guerra, Philip Humber and Kevin Mulvey.

I'm really fine with giving up the three pitchers and one OF; provided we get Santana for 5/100 to 5/120.

We'd lose a replacement for Alou in 2009. And some options for a 2009 fifth starter.
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Re: Marquez

Post  RedMagma on Wed Jan 16, 2008 10:28 pm

There is a report on the Yes network that the twins are getting Wang who had 19 era in the postseason, Marquez and Gonzales from the Yankees for Santana.Hughes is not included in the deal. I wonder how everybody feels about that?'

Christina,

I don't see anything on Yesnetwork boards that certain poster that you mention Yankees was offering Wang.

Please provide a link..

Wang's speculation started and it was mention in a MetsBlog by Matt Cerrone.

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