Craig Monroe wants a chance to replace Torii Hunter in cente

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Craig Monroe wants a chance to replace Torii Hunter in cente

Post  RedMagma on Tue Jan 29, 2008 7:08 am

Craig Monroe wants a chance to replace Torii Hunter in center for Minnesota Twins


http://www.twincities.com/twins/ci_8095935?nclick_check=1

Monroe wants chance to fill Hunter's spot
BY PHIL MILLER
Pioneer Press
Article Last Updated: 01/28/2008 12:03:38 AM CST

For all the talk about how the Twins don't have a center fielder, Craig Monroe would like to point out that he has 77 big-league games at the position - and in a park with more room than the Metrodome.

"I don't know if people around here know it, but I've made some nice plays out there. I enjoy making a tough play as much as getting a hit," said Monroe, a six-year major leaguer. "I'd like to get the opportunity to show them, put pressure on them to make a decision. I've been a regular center fielder, and (Detroit's) Comerica (Park) is a bigger park."

There's a certain symmetry, Monroe admits, if he could follow Torii Hunter in the middle of the outfield. Monroe, acquired from the Chicago Cubs in November for a player to be named later, owns a home near Hunter's in suburban Dallas and regularly works out with the former Twin.

"Torii told me, 'Dude, you're going to love it there,' " Monroe said during his first trip to Minnesota as a Twin. "He's going to be missed, definitely, but I think we're going to be able to keep the atmosphere loose, keep that camaraderie. I think that's going to be one of the strengths of the team."

He knows he wasn't one of Detroit's strengths last year, nor Chicago's when the Tigers sent him to the Cubs in August. Monroe suffered through the worst season of his pro career, hitting .219 with 12 home runs. The strange thing was, he was coming off career highs of 28 home runs and 92 runs batted the previous season, plus five postseason
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homers.

But instead of springboarding to a career year, Monroe crumpled under self-imposed pressure to do even more. "Instead of relaxing, I started tweaking things. I was trying to stay back and hit off my back foot," he said. "Now I understand myself better. I can't swing like Barry Bonds, I can't swing like Magglio Ordonez. I have to use the mechanics that work for Craig Monroe."

A players' tradition: TwinsFest 2008 drew 30,483 fans to the Metrodome for a weekend of autographs, media sessions and team bonding. That's the third-highest total in the event's 19 editions (though well below last winter's record crowd that surpassed 35,000), and added somewhere around $300,000 to the Twins' Community Fund.

But that's not the attendance figure that gets the most attention around the major leagues. It's this one: 32.

That's the number of players on the Twins' 40-man roster who flew in for the annual event, along with a dozen of the team's top minor league prospects.

"We have teams calling us every year, asking, 'How do you get all your players to show up?' " Twins President Dave St. Peter said. "Nobody else has close to this turnout."

Well, nobody else had Kirby Puckett and Kent Hrbek, either, which helps explain the difference. That pair of players, the faces of the franchise when TwinsFest started in 1989, persuaded their teammates to take part, and that set a tone that still resonates with today's roster.

"It's a tradition that's been passed down through the clubhouse. Guys take part as prospects, and by the time they've been in the big leagues awhile, they've been coming to TwinsFest for a long time," St. Peter said. "We never take it for granted. The players make it happen."

Players are not paid for their appearances; the team provides airfare, hotel rooms and meals but no stipends. "I think our guys like to do it. It's a chance to bond with their new teammates, because we give them opportunities to do things together while they're here," St. Peter said.

Buscher has simple goal: Brian Buscher wasn't surprised that the Twins signed Mike Lamb last month, a move that, on paper, cost him his job as the regular third baseman.

"I didn't think I did enough to prove myself," he said of his 33-game audition last August and September. "I knew they weren't sure about me."

He's not sure about his role this season either, so he heads to Florida with one goal: "Just make the team. That's all that's in my mind, and to do whatever I have to to make it."

Buscher hit only one home run in September and finished the season in a 4-for-31 slump. "I tend to change things when I get into a funk, and I can't do that," he said. "I'm focused on shortening up, not trying to do too much."

Crain's shoulder ready: Francisco Liriano wasn't the only pitcher to declare himself 100 percent healthy this weekend. Reliever Jesse Crain, who missed five months after surgery on his pitching shoulder last May, said he is ready for spring training as he normally would be.

"I'm throwing five times a week. I do two bullpens two times a week, and everything is fine," the right-handed set-up man said. "No pain at all."

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Re: Craig Monroe wants a chance to replace Torii Hunter in cente

Post  RedMagma on Tue Jan 29, 2008 7:13 am

http://www.nypost.com/seven/01292008/sports/yankees/joba_might_start___in_pen_139849.htm

Chamberlain, 22, is already throwing off a mound - more than two weeks before the start of spring training. The Yankees plan to use him as a starter this year, the role he was accustomed to in the minors and college. But the team wants to limit his overall innings, which means beginning 2008 in the bullpen is one option under consideration.

"We're going to have a plan going into spring training," new Yankees pitching coach Dave Eiland said yesterday. "There already has been ideas tossed around. I think we have a pretty good handle on what we're going to do going into it."

http://www.nypost.com/seven/01292008/sports/yankees/cone__yes_near_deal_145165.htm

http://www.nypost.com/seven/01282008/sports/yankees/cano_resigns_with_yanks_53466.htm

The terms on Robinson Cano's Yankee contract were finalized in full early tonight, and all that needs to be completed for the deal to be official is a physical that will take place either tomorrow or the next day, The Post has learned.

Cano's contract guarantees him $30 million for four years, and if both of the options on the deal are exercised, the second baseman will receive $57 million over six years. For Cano, it is financial security now and a chance ? even if both options are exercised ? to be a free agent in still prime years at age 31.

http://www.northjersey.com/sports/yankees/14627947.html

http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2008/01/28/cano-deal-finalized/

http://www.nypost.com/seven/01292008/sports/mets/mets__sox_butt_heads_over_santana_993386.htm

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Re: Craig Monroe wants a chance to replace Torii Hunter in cente

Post  RedMagma on Tue Jan 29, 2008 7:13 am

Re: Chamberlain...thoughts on this article...?

http://mlbfleecefactor.com/2008/01/28/joba-to-open-the-season-in-the-pen/

I mean, if they were to start Joba off in the pen, that would be similar to the tact that the Red Sox took with Papelbon in his first year. They would have him available to start later in the year, but only if needed. In 2005, the Sox were desperate for starters and had to do so with Paps. The Yankees could continue to "protect" his arm and better utilize his limited innings better in the pen if the rest of their rotation pans out.

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Re: Craig Monroe wants a chance to replace Torii Hunter in cente

Post  RedMagma on Tue Jan 29, 2008 7:18 am

Rivalry Without Rancor
Super Bowl Matchup Can't Compete In State With Yankees-Red Sox


http://www.courant.com/news/local/hc-a1super0129.artjan29,0,3386108.story?page=1

They have one of those quintessentially Connecticut mixed marriages.

Chris Sewell is devoted to the Red Sox and all things Boston. Allison Rowett loves her Yankees and everything about New York sports.

For 12 years, the Durham couple has coexisted under the same roof through summers of discontent and late October nights of baseball anguish. All the while, their allegiances have only grown stronger and they are admittedly raising a sports-confused 2-year-old named Luna.




Now, though, there's a new challenge. Allison's New York Giants are facing Chris' New England Patriots in the Super Bowl Sunday night.

All over the state, classrooms, neighborhoods and homes are divided by this latest New York-Boston tussle.

The Giants, with a deep and historic footprint in Connecticut, have a strong core of fans that spans generations. The Patriots, whose local fan base has been cultivated by three Super Bowl titles, have never been more popular.

It may be enough to fracture friendships, but it's nothing new in these parts. In fact, experienced fans will tell you this is a breeze, compared with what we've all observed during baseball season.

A Giants-Patriots Super Bowl vs. a Red Sox-Yankees playoff series? It's like a community theater production next to a Broadway show.

"Pales in comparison," Sewell said. "This is fun. When the ALCS happens, we make other arrangements to watch the games."

Rowett nodded.

"We don't see each other," she said. "It gets crazy."

Sewell and Rowett were among the few hundred who gathered for a Super Bowl rally on the Durham Green last Saturday morning. The jostling was good-natured, and there was no trash talking or gloating on either side without smiles.

After so much baseball animosity, a Giants-Patriots Super Bowl just can't reach the same temperature.

"I'm actually sort of a Giants fan," Sewell said. "I just think football is different. There's not the history."

History is indeed what makes the Red Sox-Yankees rivalry so heated, and it may be why there is not the same level of rancor this week. The hatred between fans of the Red Sox and Yankees goes back decades, and is passed down from generation to generation through baseball DNA.

Trace the rivalry to 1920, when the Red Sox — one of baseball's best teams of the early 20th century — sold Babe Ruth to the Yankees. Fans of both franchises know the rest of the story: Ruth became the grandest star in sports as the Yankees evolved into a dynasty while the Red Sox sputtered without a title for 86 years.

Fans have spent years comparing teams and players — from Ted Williams vs. Joe DiMaggio in the 1940s to Carlton Fisk vs. Thurman Munson in the 1970s, and to Nomar Garciaparra vs. Derek Jeter in the 1990s. The teams brawled on the field, and the rivalry seemingly peaked when Red Sox fans saw Bucky Dent lead the Yankees to a victory in a one-game playoff in 1978.

The back story was in place as the rivalry climbed to a fever pitch in recent years. There was Aaron Boone's home run in Game 7 of the 2003 American League Championship Series and the Red Sox's improbable comeback in the ALCS a year later, leading to Boston's first World Series victory since 1918.

These days, the Red Sox and Yankees stalk each other all year. The offseason is spent vying for the same players and reloading for another duel.

So for a few weeks, the sports media from New York and Boston have turned their attention away from baseball and are focused on football as they try to transfer the same acrimony from one sport to the other.

"Oh, I think there's a lot of buzz about this Super Bowl," Yankees general manager Brian Cashman said. "I appreciate the Giants knocking us out of the papers for a little while. It's great for our area. We were looking for a winner."

Cashman lives in Fairfield County and is a close friend of Patriots vice president Scott Pioli, a Central Connecticut graduate. Cashman was a roommate of Giants coach Tom Coughlin's son Tim in the mid-1990s, so he has ties to both teams.

Red Sox management has sought counsel from the Patriots, who have become a model franchise in professional sports. It's a contrast to their past, when the Patriots were an unstable and mostly unsuccessful franchise.


The Giants, one of the NFL's flagship franchises, dominated the region for decades after joining the league in 1925. Their games were televised all over New England, and they had fans from Maine to New Jersey.

The Patriots were born as an American Football League team in 1960 and did not make a dent as an NFL team until making the playoffs in the mid-1970s. They played in their first Super Bowl in January 1986 and saw interest from Connecticut fans spike when former Giants coach Bill Parcells joined the franchise in 1992, leading to a Super Bowl appearance five years later.

Of course, local fans were irate when owner Robert Kraft backed out of a deal to move the franchise to Hartford in 1999.

But the team's Super Bowl run that started in 2001 has done nothing but draw new fans in Connecticut. Some are fans who have historically cheered for the Giants; others are longtime Patriots fans who have become more ardent.

"Absolutely, we've had bigger crowds [when the Patriots are in the Super Bowl]," said Dan Rowe, director of operations for Sliders Sports Bar & Grill in Berlin and Plainville. "Overall, it's pretty split between the Patriots and Giants. We get a good sizable crowd for both. That's why, businesswise, we couldn't have asked for a better matchup."

Like most sports bars in the area, Sliders will be busy Sunday. Rowe said the two locations will prepare nearly 6,000 pounds of chicken wings for takeout, and the facilities will be full of fans for the game.

But it won't be like an October night with baseball on the big screens.

"Honestly," Rowe said, "the Yankees-Red Sox is our busiest night."

At the rally in Durham, a man in a Red Sox hat speculated that a similar gathering for a Red Sox-Yankees series would have drawn hundreds more fans. Durham First Selectwoman Laura Francis said her town is a microcosm of the state — divided by sports loyalty, with as many Boston fans as New York fans.

"Me? I'm a New England girl," Francis said. "And New York is not part of New England."

That drew laughs from fans wearing Red Sox and Patriots hats. A few wearing Giants and Yankees hats also chuckled, though.

Jesse Siegel, a 14-year-old Giants and Yankees fan, said the Super Bowl matchup has dominated sports talk in school. But the chatter should not be confused with the level of interest in the local baseball teams.

"For the last week, the Giants-Patriots have been pretty big," Jesse said. "But I still don't think it's been as big as the Yankees-Red Sox. Not yet, anyway.

The Super Bowl, being a pop culture event, usually trumps every other occasion in sports, or even entertainment.

And because the Red Sox and Yankees will never play for a World Series championship, it could be argued that this Giants-Patriots title game will be the biggest New York-Boston sports event.

But Connecticut fans are more interested in relishing the rivalry than quibbling with comparisons.

"Definitely, this is the best state to be in if you're a sports fan," Rowett said. "For a state that doesn't have any [professional] sports teams, it's a lot of fun. This is a great place to be."

Contact Paul Doyle at

pdoyle@courant.com.

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Post  RedMagma on Tue Jan 29, 2008 7:18 am

Whose numbers should the Yankees retire?

http://blogs.trb.com/sports/baseball/blog/


In his extremely interesting discussion with Theo Epstein at New Jersey's William Paterson University on Friday night, Brian Cashman mentioned, among many other things, that the Yankees were working on a concrete system to determine whose uniform number will be retired, going forward.

It's an interesting idea, and I'm very curious to see how it becomes reality. Is there anything less exact in professional sports than the philosophy behind retiring numbers? Cashman mentioned, with regret, that some of the past numbers were retired for emotional reasons. Yet it's understandable that emotion plays a role in this decision.

The Yankees already have 15 numbers retired, honoring a total of 16 players, and you could argue that the future will bring forth a staggering eight more candidates. From the "Torre dynasty," you have Derek Jeter (2), Joe Torre (6), Jorge Posada (20), Paul O'Neill (21), Mariano Rivera (42), Andy Pettitte (46) and Bernie Williams (51). And if Alex Rodriguez (13) spends the next 10 years as a Yankee and becomes baseball's all-time home run leader in pinstripes, what do you want to do about him?

Let's take a time machine to 2030, and give ourselves the authority to redo the Yankees' retired list as we see fit - add or subtract whoever we want. Here's what my list would look like:

In Monument Park:
Jeter (2) - Lifelong Yankee, longtime captain, seems to be headed to the Hall of Fame.
Babe Ruth (3) - This one's pretty easy.
Lou Gehrig (4) - As is this one.
Joe DiMaggio (5) - And this one.
Torre (6) - Second all-time in franchise victories, four World Series titles and helped drive the club into the age of mass media and regional sports networks.
Mickey Mantle (7) - Another slam-dunk.
Yogi Berra and Bill Dickey (Cool - I thought maybe I could lop off Dickey, but his numbers and ring total are too good to ignore.
Phil Rizzuto (10) - Really, as much for his broadcasting as his playing.
A-Rod (13) - If he actually sticks around through 2018, then fans will probably be pretty into him, by that point.
Thurman Munson (15) - The captain of the 1977-78 World Series champs, and an elite catcher for a short while.
Whitey Ford (16) - Best pitcher in franchise history.
Posada (20) - Extra points for being a lifelong Yankee like his buddy Jeter.
Don Mattingly (23) - He recorded a phenomenal, if short-lived, prime, and he served as a ray of hope during a tough period.
Casey Stengel (37) - Seven titles in 12 years. That's ridiculous.
Rivera (42) - Yet another slam-dunk.
Williams (51) - He ranks quite high in essentially every major Yankees offensive category.

UPDATE: After readidng Mike McCann's comment, I'm changing my mind on Elston Howard (32), from no to yes. Granted, his statistics are not as good as you would think, but as the Yankees' first African-American player, he holds a special place on the team's timeline.

Falling short:
Billy Martin (1) - Not shockingly, he probably was the most irrational of George Steinbrenner's designated retirements.
Roger Maris (9) - His accomplishments are legendary, but he spent only seven seasons with the Yankees.
O'Neill (21) - He didn't do anything wrong. You just have to draw the line somewhere.
Reggie Jackson (44) - Agreed, it would be particularly odd to see another Yankee wearing this showtime number. But Reggie played just five years with the Yankees.
Pettitte (46) - Those three years with the Astros hurt his candidacy, although this is predicated on the notion that Pettitte will actually follow through on his retirement threats sooner than later. If he pitches into his 40s, then let's talk again.
Ron Guidry (49) - If you look at the Yankees' all-time pitching leaders, you'll see that you can make a better case for Red Ruffing than for the Gator.

This would two more numbers and two more players to the current total. So the final tally of retired numbers would still be obnoxious, but not considerably more obnoxious than the current list.

Whom would you add and/or subtract from the Yankees' list?

# Looks like it'll be a busy week-to-10-days on the Johan Santana front. If new Twins GM Bill Smith trades Santana to the Mets for a bulk package of Mets prospects, then it will be fair to criticize Smith for his methodology. It was okay for Smith to play hardball with the Yankees and Red Sox back in December if he was truly willing to bring Santana back to Minnesota in 2008. Right now, however, it sure looks like the Twins are intent on moving Santana, and it'll be for a relatively unimpressive group of young players.

# Thanks to Jim for introducing himself to me at the annual BBWAA New York chapter dinner. It was a pretty good night, highlighted by an Iraq War veteran thanking Johnny Damon for his work with the Wounded Warrior Project. Damon, whose father served in Vietnam, started to break down while talking about the sacrifices that soldiers make. Powerful stuff.

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Post  RedMagma on Tue Jan 29, 2008 7:21 am

Sporting News- Open Letter To Yankees Senior VP Hank Steinbrenner


http://www.sportingnews.com/blog/invisiblerman/132562


Dear Hank Steinbrenner,

I would like to introduce a new concept to you. You may not have heard of it, as it is a very complex concept with which few people are familiar. Once you are able to grasp this highly theoretical concept, I believe it may be of great use to yourself and GM Brian Cashman.

This concept is called "Wiggle Room." Essentially, this concept calls for the use of terms that are indefinite instead of terms that are absolute.

In order to properly grasp this concept, one must understand the difference between these types of terms. Absolutes — terms such as "always," "never," and "definitely," — do not allow for any other possible results. On the other hand, indefinite terms — "often," "infrequently," "unlikely," "probable" — concede that other outcomes may come about while still impressing upon one's audience that one's own foreseen result is the most likely scenario.

For example, instead of the word "impossible" to describe something that will almost certainly never happen, one might use the word "improbable." This connotes that the event is highly unlikely but also allows "wiggle room" just in case it does actually happen.

This concept, if used properly, may often assist in the avoidance of a condition commonly known as "eggonyourfaceitis," with which I am sure you are all too familiar by now. (Note the use here of the words "may often" as opposed to "will always," thus allowing for the possibility that you could still come down with a case of eggonyourfaceitis despite the use of "wiggle room.")

I am certain this concept will be beneficial to you while running the Yankees. Indeed there have been several cases during this off-season in which you might have used this concept to your advantage. For one, you could have used it during the Alex Rodriguez/Scott Boras negotiations. Instead of announcing to the baseball world that negotiations were at an end and that you would definitely not re-sign A-Rod, you could have said it was highly unlikely that the Yankees would sign A-Rod and that negotiations would probably not resume. By doing so you might have avoided much derision when you later signed A-Rod anyway.

Or in dealing with the Twins and Johan Santana, rather than stating that a trade would not be made after an arbitrary deadline, you could have simply asserted that a trade would be less possible after the deadline. Though no trade has yet happened, it has been reported that you have in fact made offers to Minnesota after the deadline, indicating that a trade is still very much possible despite your earlier remarks.

Another scenario in which you might have used it is the Roger Clemens situation in which you have already stated that Clemens will not be re-signed. Hopefully this will not cause yet another case of eggonyourfaceitis, but had you said it was unlikely that Clemens would be re-signed, you

One would think you might have learned this lesson already, especially after last year's Clemens situation in which Mr. Cashman told reporters that he would not sign Clemens unless he reported to Spring Training and then signed him mid-season anyway. But from your actions during the past few months, I can see that no one has yet introduced this revolutionary new concept to you.

Thank you for your time, Mr. Steinbrenner. I only hope you will take this under advisement in the future and that "Wiggle Room" will be of great assistance to you in running the Yankees organization.

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Post  RedMagma on Tue Jan 29, 2008 7:25 am

Boston vs. New York: The mother of all rivalries

http://www.thestar.com/Sports/article/298256

Even before the Curse of the Bambino, Boston fans have hated Yankees – and New Yorkers wouldn't want it any other way


Peter Gammons, the grand old man of New England sports reporting, once called it "Athens versus Sparta."

Gammons was thinking of the rivalry between Boston and New York in baseball terms. This Sunday, we'll see the Super Bowl incarnation featuring the Patriots and Giants.

But this civic spitting match stretches back long before Babe Ruth showed up. And like all the nastiest sports feuds, this one started far from the field. It just plays out there now.

"If you were here and you watched the Boston sports fans for a year, you'd walk away say, `All these people are nuts,'" said Blue Jays GM J.P. Ricciardi, from his home in nearby Worcester, Mass. "Watch how many adults you see walking around with Patriots, Red Sox and Celtics gear on. It's unbelievable."

Bostonians, it seems, need two things to define themselves. First, there is the home team.

"Even my friends hate rooting for the Jays when we play Boston. It's like they're cheating on their wives or something," Ricciardi said.

Second, that home team has to beat New York.

New York, it must be admitted, only cares if the team wins. Beating Boston and losing to someone else won't cut it.

Warfare, the kind we're talking about here, is politics by other means.

In the late 18th century, Boston's revolutionary Sons of Liberty were the main anti-British agitators in the yet-to-be United States. The group's local boss, Samuel Adams, is familiar to anyone who's had a beer in Boston.

Up north, the pesky insurrectionists were considered traitors. The Tories who ran New York remained loyal to the crown, for a while at least. That helped kick off this 250-year-old grudge match.

Socioeconomically, the cities were a lot further apart than the 300 kilometres that divides them on the map. Boston was Harvard and old money, arts, culture and political power. New York was the Five Points and the Bronx, dirty, thriving and full of the great unwashed.

Around the middle of the 20th century, that relationship began to spin round. Suddenly, New York was the magnet for artists and financiers.

Boston clung to its patrician past – the Kennedys helped – but it was plainly playing second fiddle to a city becoming the capital of the western world.

That loss of prestige helped nurture Boston's legendary sense of grievance. The starting point in sporting terms is Ruth. His 1920 trade from the Red Sox to the upstart Yankees began a 80-year tailspin of missed opportunities and hard luck in New England. No disaster hurt so much as the 1978 baseball season. The Red Sox gave back a 14.5-game lead in the AL East and wound up tied with the Yankees at the end of the year. In the one-game playoff, light-hitting New York shortstop Bucky Dent stuck a knife in the Red Sox nation with only his fifth homer of the season. New York won the game 5-4.

The fates didn't switch allegiances until 2004, when the Yankees blew a 3-0 lead in the ALCS to fall to the Red Sox in seven games.

For all the bluster, the "fiercest rivalry in sports" (as USA Today would have it – maybe they've never been to a football match in Glasgow) has never been that all-consuming away from the diamond.

At different points, the Knicks and the Celtics have dominated the NBA. But they've rarely been powerhouses at the same time.

In the NHL, Boston has always viewed the Canadiens as their historic rival. The Rangers spent half-a-century casting around for a counterpoint until the Islanders arrived. Then they started losing to them, too.

A lot is already being made of how the Patriots/Giants Super Bowl plays into the matrix of this old feud. But with Boston suddenly winning its share, the cities now seem insufferably consumed with each other. That makes the backlash to the rivalry more interesting than the rivalry itself.

One Philadelphia paper recently argued which of the two rival cities it is proper to hate more. The correct answer? Both, equally.

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Re: Craig Monroe wants a chance to replace Torii Hunter in cente

Post  RedMagma on Tue Jan 29, 2008 7:28 am

boston teams


all i hear about is how the yankees buy all there talent but lets look at the boston teams the past couple years red sox trade away young hanley ramirez and others for beckett and lowell than they go trade for a reliever they dont need in gagne now lets look at the pats how many wr did they sign in the off season moss welker stallworth they also went out and picked up thomas who did good in balitmore last year and last the celtics traded for two all star players kg and ray allen now thats just unfair im not saying what those teams did was wrong but the yankees are growing there young talent and the boston teams are becoming the EVIL EMPIRES



You guys are simply out of your MINDS if you think the Celtics and Patriots "bought" there current string of success. First of all, as mentioned, BOTH leagues have a salary cap. In the case of the Patriots, its a HARD salary cap. You can't spend more than the cap. Period. Everybody's operating on the same playing field there. The only reason Moss isn't on another team is because NO ONE OFFERED MORE TO HIM, NOT because the Patriots spent more. Please.

Now, while the NBA has a SOFT cap, where you can spend more, you can't deny that Boston was fairly adroit at stocking the assets needed to make the blockbuster deals: a lot of good young talent and large, expiring contracts. Without either, nothing woudl ahve happened. Neither of those has ANYTHING to do with simply opening up the purse-strings. Both take expert management to pull of, both in the case of talent evaluation and cap management.


Red Sox. Let me name a few names here. Youkilis. Pedroia. Lester. Papelbon. Varitek. Ellsbury. Delcarmen. Bucholz. All of them brought up through the farm.

Lowell. Schilling. Beckett. Crisp. Now here's several players where the team traded young talent to get talent back. Both of those require good GM skills and NOT $$$. $$$ to re-sign, sure, but that's not why they were initially on the team.

And what about David Ortiz? How much do you think the Sox signed him for when no one else wanted him? You don't think the Yankees had a chance at signing him? Think again....

As for Ramirez, Drew, and Lugo...what's three high-priced free agents on a 25-man roster...? Maybe you guys in NY can fill in the answer to that one...

Bottom line, New Yorkers have nothing to complain about when it comes to the amount of $$$ the Boston teams spend on their rosters.

As for why other fans hate Boston teams...it's because they win. Nothing more. You guys should've realized that back from when the Yankees were winning.




so someone wearing a colts jersey at a pats game wouldn't get booed? someone wearing an eagles jersey at a giants game wouldn't get booed? you don't make any sense.


I'm saying she would've got booed anywhere because the entire country despises the Patriots except Boston fans (and their fairweather hangerson). The issue is not mutually exclusive dunderhead...



I guarantee she wouldn't have gotten booed if they announced her during a Cardinals Lions game
Yblue Post #14: Jan 28, 2:57 pm Quote | Report Violation
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im saying that the boston teams are turning into the teams that everyone hates now becauase they are getting the all star players to become a good team instead of growing there talent



It's true and you have a point, anyone who doesn't believe you needs to watch that 12 year old girl get booed by a stadium full of people for wearing a Patriots jersey. The Celtics and Patriots have simply bought all-stars to build super teams, salary cap or not this is exactly what the haters in Boston have accused the "heartless Yankees" of doing for decades.

You guys are simply out of your MINDS if you think the Celtics and Patriots "bought" there current string of success. First of all, as mentioned, BOTH leagues have a salary cap. In the case of the Patriots, its a HARD salary cap. You can't spend more than the cap. Period. Everybody's operating on the same playing field there. The only reason Moss isn't on another team is because NO ONE OFFERED MORE TO HIM, NOT because the Patriots spent more. Please.

Now, while the NBA has a SOFT cap, where you can spend more, you can't deny that Boston was fairly adroit at stocking the assets needed to make the blockbuster deals: a lot of good young talent and large, expiring contracts. Without either, nothing woudl ahve happened. Neither of those has ANYTHING to do with simply opening up the purse-strings. Both take expert management to pull of, both in the case of talent evaluation and cap management.


Red Sox. Let me name a few names here. Youkilis. Pedroia. Lester. Papelbon. Varitek. Ellsbury. Delcarmen. Bucholz. All of them brought up through the farm.

think again about Varitek.

Jeter, bernie, cano, pettitte, posada, rivera, Hughes, Joba, Melky, Wang. For years the yanks have had more home grown talent than most competeing teams including your red sox.

Bottom line, New Yorkers have nothing to complain about when it comes to the amount of $$$ the Boston teams spend on their rosters.

No one is complaining, he was merely pointing out that the sox (or boston teams in general) have become exactly what boston has long hated. He does have a point.

As for why other fans hate Boston teams...it's because they win. Nothing more. You guys should've realized that back from when the Yankees were winning.

We did. Its idiot trolls who always bring up the other reasons that now you, the boston fan, has to deal with. However 1 thing is going in boston's favor. While the media long loathed the yankees, and still do, they just adore the redsox and everything about them.







Red Sox. Let me name a few names here. Youkilis. Pedroia. Lester. Papelbon. Varitek. Ellsbury. Delcarmen. Bucholz. All of them brought up through the farm.

think again about Varitek.

Jeter, bernie, cano, pettitte, posada, rivera, Hughes, Joba, Melky, Wang. For years the yanks have had more home grown talent than most competeing teams including your red sox.

Bottom line, New Yorkers have nothing to complain about when it comes to the amount of $$$ the Boston teams spend on their rosters.

No one is complaining, he was merely pointing out that the sox (or boston teams in general) have become exactly what boston has long hated. He does have a point.

As for why other fans hate Boston teams...it's because they win. Nothing more. You guys should've realized that back from when the Yankees were winning.

We did. Its idiot trolls who always bring up the other reasons that now you, the boston fan, has to deal with. However 1 thing is going in boston's favor. While the media long loathed the yankees, and still do, they just adore the redsox and everything about them.




Varitek - Why think again about Varitek? Both he and Lowe were prospects when the Red Sox traded Heathcliff Slocumb to the Mariners for both of them. So, in that they were still farmhands when the Sox got them, couldn't you consider that "via the farm-system"? Even if it's not, that's good talent evaluation and not free spending.

Boston vs New York "home grown" - You are absolutely correct. For years the Yankees have been bringing up talent to supplement their roster. Lately, even, they have re-committed, a la what the Red Sox are doing, but you can't deny the legacy of the Yankees signing of free agents, either.

Boston being spenders - Certainly, Boston fans have LONG been pointing out that the Yankees have "bought" their championships. But it would be disingenuous for a Red Sox fan to say that all the Yankees do is spend while Red Sox are a clear #2 in that departement. However,......they are still a DISTANT #2. While it may now apply to the Red Sox, it's still something the Yankees use to their advantage like no other team is able to. A subtle distinction, to be sure, but that's what's still behind what the Red Sox fans are saying.

Red Sox = Media Darlings? - I don't know if that's anything more than the combination of them winning lately (and convincingly), their roster full of youth (which the Yankees, rightfully, have also been lauded for), and several characters on the team (Papelbon, Pedroia, Ramirez, Ortiz, Schilling) that never cease to provide fodder for news items. That kind of thing is also cyclical. Next year, who knows, it'll be the Angels.... To tell you the truth, I thought that was more of a local Boston media thing. Wasn't aware it was getting nauseating at the national level, yet. At least, with regards to the Red Sox.

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Post  RedMagma on Tue Jan 29, 2008 7:29 am

Red Sox. Let me name a few names here. Youkilis. Pedroia. Lester. Papelbon. Varitek. Ellsbury. Delcarmen. Bucholz. All of them brought up through the farm.

think again about Varitek.

Jeter, Bernie, cano, pettitte, posada, Rivera, Hughes, Joba, Melky, Wang. For years the yanks have had more home grown talent than most competing teams including your red sox.

Bottom line, New Yorkers have nothing to complain about when it comes to the amount of $$$ the Boston teams spend on their rosters.

No one is complaining, he was merely pointing out that the sox (or Boston teams in general) have become exactly what Boston has long hated. He does have a point.

As for why other fans hate Boston teams...it's because they win. Nothing more. You guys should ve realized that back from when the Yankees were winning.

We did. Its idiot trolls who always bring up the other reasons that now you, the Boston fan, has to deal with. However 1 thing is going in Boston's favor. While the media long loathed the Yankees, and still do, they just adore the red sox and everything about them.




Varitek - Why think again about Varitek? Both he and Lowe were prospects when the Red Sox traded Heathcliff Slocumb to the Mariners for both of them. So, in that they were still farmhands when the Sox got them, couldn't you consider that "via the farm-system"? Even if it's not, that's good talent evaluation and not free spending.

Boston vs New York "home grown" - You are absolutely correct. For years the Yankees have been bringing up talent to supplement their roster. Lately, even, they have re-committed, a la what the Red Sox are doing, but you can't deny the legacy of the Yankees signing of free agents, either.

Boston being spenders - Certainly, Boston fans have LONG been pointing out that the Yankees have "bought" their championships. But it would be disingenuous for a Red Sox fan to say that all the Yankees do is spend while Red Sox are a clear #2 in that departement. However,......they are still a DISTANT #2. While it may now apply to the Red Sox, it's still something the Yankees use to their advantage like no other team is able to. A subtle distinction, to be sure, but that's what's still behind what the Red Sox fans are saying.

Red Sox = Media Darlings? - I don't know if that's anything more than the combination of them winning lately (and convincingly), their roster full of youth (which the Yankees, rightfully, have also been lauded for), and several characters on the team (Papelbon, Pedroia, Ramirez, Ortiz, Schilling) that never cease to provide fodder for news items. That kind of thing is also cyclical. Next year, who knows, it'll be the Angels.... To tell you the truth, I thought that was more of a local Boston media thing. Wasn't aware it was getting nauseating at the national level, yet. At least, with regards to the Red Sox.




I never denied anything. The point is simple. The red sox are no longer the little engine that could. Throwing 900 billion at a Japanese import never would have happened years ago. He would have been a Yankee, easily. The yanks have company now, much to the dismay of the rest of baseball. I say its good business for them, im certainly not knocking them. The proof is in the winning. But don't be so shocked when the rest of the league, fans, and media eventually turn and start to hate your teams the way they hate the Yankees for "buying" their rings (whether its true or not is another debate all together). Comes with the territory.

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Post  RedMagma on Tue Jan 29, 2008 7:30 am

100% agreed. Boston, relative to the rest of the league, has been able to develope and capitilize on its revenue streams in such a way that it can compete with the Yankees, almost on the same level. But still, only almost. And we'll see what happens when that new stadium is complete in the Bronx. Something tells me some of that new revenue will be spent on talent....

I think, for a while anyway, the Yankees will take most of the heat for increased spending. Not that the Sox won't be doing the same thing, but the Yankees will have the resources to outspend them every year for some time to come. Otherwise, you are right...Boston would suffer the slings and arrows for buying their rings, just like the Yankees. And it would be deserved.

One last point - it would be a disservice to the front offices of both these teams to suggest that, at this point, all they do is spend money. Does it make it easier to sign expensive draftees (i.e. Boras clients)? Yes. Does it make it easier to sign free agents? Of course. But that neglects the job that Cashman and Epstein have recently done to bolster their farm systems (helped by cash, to be sure), both through drafting and player development. These are two COMPLETE teams. For the Yankees sake, they better listen to Hal S. and Cashman more than they listen to Hank.


While the Sox are spending a lot more under their new ownership, you have to admit they are doing it much better than the Yankees. They have 2 titles now in the last 3 years and a payroll that is still 50 million less than the Yankees. The Yankees have 11 guys making double digit millions, the Red Sox have 6. You also must know that if Dice-K was open bidding, the Yankees would have outbid Boston no matter what.

Either way you can't deny the Yankees have been schooled by the Red Sox for about the last 5 years, both on the field and in the accounting department.


Well maybe not the last 5 years on the field in total, but certainly by winning 2 WS rings in that span. Their front office just operated in a better fashion IMO. The dying need for the said yankee owner to spout off about anything and everything just will never make sense to me as good buisness practice in any way shape or form. the constant internal divisions made public, the boistering arrogance, the tell all of every shred of their off season plans.....someone has yet to tell me how this could possibly be helping the yankees condict their buisness, while retaining working relationships with other teams.

Yanks rebuilt the farm, but it still remains unbalanced in many ways. They still feel the need to overpay countles aging stars when cutting bait can be the better option, maybe not next year, but in a year or 2.

The yanks are not known for spending money wisely, and that certatinly hasnt changed. The redsox, wit hthe exception of a few bombs like Drew and lugo perhaps, seem to be making all the right moves. Maybe its just luck, maybe they have better talent evaluation, who knows. But right now, the redsox clearly have something going in the right direction. Time will tell how the yanks adjust.


The Patriots have $122 million in payroll only second to Redsox even with Nfl Salary Cap...

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Re: Craig Monroe wants a chance to replace Torii Hunter in cente

Post  RedMagma on Tue Jan 29, 2008 7:33 am

From Mets Fan




The Mets have the deepest package because they have the only package. The Yankees and Red Sox are just in it to prevent the other team from getting Santana.

So, the Twins have to decide what combination of Mets prospects is worth more than 1 year of Santana and 2 draft picks. Currently whatever the Mets are offering isn't enough.

I really hope you're right though, and that the Twins are resolved to trade Santana no matter what - and that Omar is smart enough to know this and to therefore keep Fernando Martinez off the table.

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Post  RedMagma on Tue Jan 29, 2008 7:35 am

Mets optimistic on Santana offer

BY KEN DAVIDOFF | ken.davidoff@newsday.com
January 29, 2008
http://www.newsday.com/sports/baseball/mets/ny-spbase295555903jan29,0,4095564.story

As of late yesterday afternoon, the Mets had yet to hear anything new from the Twins regarding the Johan Santana sweepstakes. They expect that to change shortly, and hope that their offer can land the two-time Cy Young Award winner.

"Everybody was floating their cards around the table," a person plugged into the Mets' thinking said yesterday on the condition of anonymity. "Now they're going to have to put them on the table. We'll just go from there."

The Mets are undoubtedly the most motivated buyers in the race for Santana, and they might very well be the only team willing to both give a package of young players and commit to a lucrative contract extension with Santana. While the Mets have drawn a line at five-year agreements with pitchers, they have an excellent relationship with Santana's representative Peter Greenberg (who counts Jose Reyes as a client), so common ground should be discovered in any such negotiations.

With the Yankees and Red Sox all but out of the bidding, the Mets can continue to insist on holding on to outfield prospect Fernando Martinez, leaving their offer at outfielder Carlos Gomez and pitchers Deolis Guerra, Phil Humber and Kevin Mulvey. The Twins appear determined to trade Santana before camp.

Cone to rejoin YES

Former Yankees and Mets pitcher David Cone appears headed back to the YES Network, where he worked in 2002 before a 2003 comeback with the Mets damaged Cone's relationship with George Steinbrenner.

Eric Handler, a spokesman for YES, said, "We've been talking with [Cone] about possibly coming aboard," and while Handler stressed, "There's no deal at this time," Cone began telling friends this past weekend that he would be in the YES booth. A report yesterday stated that Cone would broadcast about 50 Yankees games, replacing the team's broadcaster-turned-manager Joe Girardi.



Around the leagues

The Phillies signed Pedro Feliz to a two-year contract to be their everyday third baseman. Feliz, 32, hit 20 homers with a .290 on-base percentage for the Giants in 2007 ... The Mariners ordered outfielder Adam Jones home from the Venezuelan Winter League, the strongest sign yet that Seattle would use Jones as the centerpiece to acquire Baltimore ace Erik Bedard.

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Re: Craig Monroe wants a chance to replace Torii Hunter in cente

Post  RedMagma on Tue Jan 29, 2008 7:38 am

Devil loves Redsox especially Lucchino. He's lucifer himself

#
by Anonymous from about 14 hours ago

That doesnt make any sense. If your saying that the Red Sox have as much of a chance as the Mets getting Santana dont the yankees have a good chance TO?
#
Reply to this Comment by Anonymous from about 13 hours ago

no, because god hates the yankees too.
#
Reply to this Comment by Chris
from about 13 hours ago

As a pre-2004 sox fan, i must say this immediate impact, MUST TRADE mentality, and risking more prospects is a tough pill to swallow
#
Reply to this Comment by Aaron
from about 10 hours ago

If I were Theo Epstein, I would hold on to Jacoby Ellsbury. Dealing for Santana would mean giving up your number one prospect plus a handful of other prospects that will be major-league ready by 2009 or 2010. After you get Santana, you will need to sign him to a 5-year plus extension reaching upwards of 130 million dollars. Its just not worth it. As a Red Sox fan and Yankee hater, I hope Santana is traded to the Mets, because the Yankees are made of money.
#
Reply to this Comment by Anonymous from less than a minute ago

Devil loves Redsox especially Lucchino. He's lucifer himself

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Re: Craig Monroe wants a chance to replace Torii Hunter in cente

Post  RedMagma on Tue Jan 29, 2008 7:42 am

Originally Posted by aeromac76
-Smith would rather deal with the Mets than Yankees because if he goes back to the Yankees, it seems like he caved and without Hughes on the table, it may not be worth it to him

-As for the fans liking the Twins or Sox prospects better than ours, it is simply because they do not know any better, and that is not an indictment on them, a lot of us are in the same boat.
When a fan talks about prospects or non-ML talent from other teams, most of them, myself included, know the 2 or 3 best young kids from a potential trading partner. It may even extend all the way up to some front office staff and is certainly public perception.
This is where inequity starts to play out and work against the Yankees.
For instance, all a fan hears is the Sox have put only their top guy off limits (Bucholz) but are willing to deal anyone else. The Mets have really put almost anyone in play. Yet the Yankees have 4 or 5 guys they won't part with so screw them..
Only the most informed people really know that even though we are not going to deal or #1,2,3 or 4 chip, our #5-10 are still better than the Mets' 1-5 or perhaps even the Sox #2-6 or so.
But that is not what people think about, they just think I am getting the Mets' best, or the Red Sox best, but the Yankees won't give me their best so I guess they are out of it.
Most fans, not all, who are not Yankee or Mets fans in any way just see the Mets giving everyone of note away, but the Yankees not parting with Hughes, Cano, or Chamberlain. They make the mistake of equating the top 5 in any system.
It is why Lester and Ellsbury have been gravely overvalued.
Sox, No Bucholz. Yanks, no Joba. OK..
But after that, the Sox are willing with Lester and Ellsbury, but we are not with Cano or Hughes. But all a distant fan sees is that Lester and Ellsbury are the Boston equivalent of Cano and Hughes. Same for guys like Gomez and Pelfrey/Humber.
It is totally ludicrous, and the Boston PR machine and networks propagate it well.
But that is why you hear things like Lester and Hughes having similar value out there, even though the thought itself is preposterous..



With the Yankees and Red Sox all but out of the bidding, the Mets can continue to insist on holding onto outfield prospect Fernando Martinez, leaving their offer at outfielder Carlos Gomez and pitchers Deolis Guerra, Phil Humber and Kevin Mulvey. The Twins appear determined to trade Santana, rather than bring him into their camp.


I wonder how far "out of the bidding" the Yankees are?

In today's Post, Joel Sherman said it is between the Sox and Mets right now and it's really heating up.

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Re: Craig Monroe wants a chance to replace Torii Hunter in cente

Post  RedMagma on Tue Jan 29, 2008 7:48 am

Originally Posted by Rocketbooster
I still don't understand how a Mets package with a mediorcre Humber or Pelfrey and very good, but very young (and years away) prospects is better than a Kennedy, Horne, plus package..........but at this point, I think Bill Smith would rather take any package from the Mets than go back to the Yankees. Also, he doesn't seem to really love their prospects. I don't understand why Twins fans love the Mets package............



Quote:
Originally Posted by jeterismyhomeboy
Kennedy, Gardner, Horne, Tabata.

We need a starting CF, and Melky is decent enough to stay til Ajax pans out. If they want Ellsbury, we'll give them Ellsbury-Lite. Horne is better than Masterson, and Tabata is relatively distant, but boy is he toolsy. It'll suck, but we'll have the best pitcher in baseball and have held on to top pitching prospects of 2007 and 2008. Which I think is pretty sweet.

And Lester is not a future #2. No freaking way. Not with a minor league 1.35 WHIP. Minor league! On the ML level, his WHIP is equivalent to Moose 2007. You've got to be freaking kidding me.

Theres a difference between potential and production. Lester's stuff is good, if he works out his control he can be good. Its not guaranteed to happen, which is why i said potential.

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Post  RedMagma on Tue Jan 29, 2008 7:48 am

METS, SOX BUTT HEADS OVER SANTANA
By JOEL SHERMAN


http://www.nypost.com/seven/01292008/sports/mets/mets__sox_butt_heads_over_santana_993386.htm

January 29, 2008 -- Teams involved in the Johan Santana sweepstakes confirm the Twins have intensified their efforts in the past 48 hours to generate the best offers from the main suitors - and indications are, this has come down to the Mets New York Mets and the Red Sox for arguably the majors' best starter.

The Yankees New York Yankees have been kept apprised by Minnesota officials of where matters stand but continue to indicate they are following the wishes of Hal Steinbrenner and GM Brian Cashman to protect their prospects and shun this deal.

There was a strong sense around the majors that the Twins want to complete a trade before spring training.

"The Twins are sending out signals they are getting down the tracks with [a suitor]," one AL official said.

Another AL official cited a higher sense of urgency from the Minnesota camp over the past few days.

The Red Sox essentially have sat on their offers since the early December winter meetings. There were reports in recent days that they had pulled Jon Lester from an offer, but officials involved in these discussions deny that. Executives surveyed feel an offer of Lester, Coco Crisp, Jed Lowrie and Justin Masterson is superior to what the Mets can assemble, especially because even yesterday Met officials were saying they were still refusing to include outfield prospects Carlos Gomez Carlos Gomez and Fernando Martinez in the same deal.

That doesn't mean, however, the Mets are out of it.

"The Mets are legitimately in this," an official from one team involved said. "It would be a mistake to minimize their chances." This official theorized the Twins might be willing to take a deal with the Mets if it is close to Boston's because that would get Santana out of the AL.

There was a report yesterday out of the Dominican Republic that the Mets had pulled Gomez from his Winter League team. But Met officials said it was their plan to limit Gomez's games, and that this was not the prelude to a trade. The Mets are known to have offered a package built around Gomez, Phil Humber, Deolis Guerra and Kevin Mulvey.

The Twins want more, and there are Met officials worried their club is being defined as a frontrunner by Minnesota only to see if that will provoke the Yanks back into the action or motivate the Red Sox to offer more.

*

Robinson Cano's contract with the Yanks was finalized pending a physical either today or tomorrow.

He is guaranteed $30 million for four years, and if both of the options on the deal are exercised, the second baseman will receive $57 million over six.

Cano is due $3 million in 2008, $6 million in 2009, $9 million in 2010 and $10 million in 2011. In 2012, Cano has an option for $14 million with a $2 million buyout. If that option is picked up, Cano will have another option in 2013 for $15 million with a $2 million buyout.

joel.sherman@nypost.com

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Post  RedMagma on Tue Jan 29, 2008 8:02 am

Long, misleading Clemens report to bore Congress

Wallace Matthews
January 29, 2008

http://www.newsday.com/sports/baseball/yankees/ny-spwally295555904jan29,0,5851243.column?track=rss


I think I have finally figured out the strategy being used by Roger Clemens and his alleged advisers in their increasingly silly-slash-desperate attempts to convince the world that the Rocket ran on clean fuel for the past 24 years.

Yesterday, they released something called "An Analysis of the Career of Roger Clemens," and are planning, I believe, to read it aloud - all 18,000 mind-numbing, eye-glazing, reality-distorting words - before Congress when Clemens testifies Feb. 13. Their hope, it appears, is that by droning on through all 45 pages, 38 charts and one "exhibit," apparently compiled to prove that Clemens' subpar 2005 season was the fault of his weak-hitting Astros teammates, they will put Congress, and the rest of the country that still cares enough to watch, into a blissful, unconcerned slumber.

The report had that effect on me yesterday, and I highly recommend it to anyone suffering from a sleep disorder. Unlike the drugs Clemens has admitted to taking, it is available on the Internet without a prescription and is much cheaper and safer than Lunesta or Ambien CR. These statistical comparisons and other arcane items might read like pornography to Bill James and his ilk. To the rest of us, it seems designed to misstate, sedate and obfuscate.



But really, what else does Clemens have left? He's tried the "candor" routine with Mike Wallace, and wound up revealing himself as a liar. (Remember how "Brian McNamee never injected me with anything" morphed into "Brian McNamee never injected me with anything other than Lidocaine and B-12?")

Clemens has tried the "look at what a good guy I am" routine by playing that taped call to McNamee supposedly made because he was concerned about the health of McNamee's 7-year-old son. But he hardly even asked about the kid. He spent most of his time sounding like what he was, a guy wearing a wire trying to get another guy to spill something. The fact that the other guy was probably wearing a wire, too, made for a rather awkward and unsympathetic conversation.

Then he tried to play the "hit me with your best shot" card by pretending to stand up to reporters' questions. But once the questions got too tough, he had a tantrum and stormed off.

So now his agents get involved, with the data they usually use to "prove" their client is worth more than a team is willing to pay. Only this time, they're trying to prove that Clemens really wasn't all that much better than everyone else. Hence, he must have been playing clean.

Like his previous three attempts at self-acquittal, this one, too, will blow up in Clemens' face. Provided anyone is still awake at the end of the report.

It's bad enough that he uses Curt Schilling, Randy Johnson and Nolan Ryan as examples of pitchers who have been effective past age 40 to prove he is clean, because that asks you to presume that they are, too, or in the case of Ryan, were. But all too often, "clean" means "not yet caught" or "too smart to pay by check" or "not yet on the list of a personal trainer turning state's evidence."

What's worse is Page 42 of the report, featuring a chart of 31 "Hall of Fame pitchers who pitched into their 40s." Not only is the chart wrong - or dishonest - because five pitchers listed - Mordecai Brown, Jim Bunning, Bob Gibson, Walter Johnson and Robin Roberts - never played past 39, but it demonstrates precisely the opposite of what Team Rocket was trying to prove.

Of the 26 who pitched into their 40s, four had more post-40th birthday wins than Clemens' 66. But Phil Niekro and Hoyt Wilhelm were knuckleballers, who presumably can pitch effectively at a far greater age than power pitchers. Of the rest, a group that includes Cy Young, Lefty Grove, Tom Seaver, Steve Carlton, Warren Spahn and Grover Cleveland Alexander, none came close to Clemens' dominance in the four-plus seasons since his 40th birthday, in which he has gone 66-36 with an ERA consistently below the league average.

By contrast, the combined record of the other 40-somethings, minus Niekro and Wilhelm, is 672-646, and the average post-40 record a mediocre 26-25.

Any way you crunch the numbers, Clemens' post-40th birthday career has been remarkable, astounding and unprecedented. And highly suspicious.

We didn't need a statistical analysis to tell us that. But clearly, we will need Congress, or some other disinterested party, to tell us how and why he managed to do it. That is, if they can manage to stay awake.

more in /sports/baseball/yankees

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Re: Craig Monroe wants a chance to replace Torii Hunter in cente

Post  RedMagma on Tue Jan 29, 2008 8:16 am

Johan Santana Rumors: Tuesday

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/

Over at MetsBlog today, Matthew Cerrone does a nice job summing up the Johan Santana situation.

The New York Daily News indicates that the Mets are the one team pushing for Santana, but the Twins might use the Erik Bedard haul as a measuring stick. Joel Sherman sees it as a Mets-Red Sox battle. He notes that Carlos Gomez will skip the Caribbean Series not because of an impending trade but just to limit his games.

We could finally get some kind of resolution with Santana this week. Just to keep things interesting, check out Mark Healey's note about the Dodgers "creeping into the picture."





again... just do the deal so we can get some fresh rumors. im gettin tired of this, bedard, and roberts and nothing else...

Posted by: bronx | January 29, 2008 at 08:04 AM

Healey really think the red sox are out of this picture? Is he out of his mind? the red sox are just leaving their offer on the table. they know that as far as the twins are concerned, the red sox have BY FAR the best offer. I do like the yankees offer to. the mets offer if you ask me is a joke. yes there are 2 mlb ready prospects involved with gomez and martinez but once again there in no insurance on any of these players. Kei igawa was a big japanese prospect, hes now in A trying to figure out how to pitch in MLB. The yankees deal is very good too especially if its hughes instead of kennedy, however here is my breakdown. They want a good center fielder tho which both crisp or ellsbury. cabrera is alright, but as i've said before if you look at his numbers, especially defensively, crisp or ellsbury is a much better selection and will cost the twins a bit less.

basically my main point is either lester or ellsbury both have proven their worth in the majors, which even hughes i cant really say has, due to an injury shortened season for him.


jersey i was going to tell him something like that, but its not even worth it. I feel like I have been defending the Mets prospects for months. One thing that will be nice about the Mets getting santana is the Omar bashers and Mets prospect bashers will have to give somewhere. How does a crappy GM get the best pitcher in baseball using a system full of scrubs?



cuz Bill Smith is an idoit ..plan an simple

Posted by: Larsen101 | January 29, 2008 at 08:43 AM

I think that Johan should have sold himself to a TV station for the winter. Did any of you see the Truman show? It could be the Johan Show. Camera's just following him 24 hours a day 7 days a week so we can have nonstop access to exactly what he is doing every minute of the day. If he starts wacking it with the right arm, I might believe some of the rumors about his throwing arm Smile.

Seriously, imagine how many people would watch something like that? Its amazing how many people want to know what has happened in the last 10 minutes and check back in100's of times a day to look for updated news.

Posted by: nrmax88 | January 29, 2008 at 08:44 AM

Yeah... I'm so tired of the Met bashers that I really don't care if this deal goes down or not.

It's funny how all of the homers say our prospects suck, and refuse to listen to guys like Keith Law, Jim Callis, or any other scouts that say the Mets should hang on to him and not even trade him for the best pitcher in baseball.




We are all a little guilty of that. I am as tired of it as anybody, and as is well known here, dont really want Santana, but I cant pretend that it does not still interest me. There are probably more then a few annoyed GM's of other teams not even involved in Santana who have their own business to attend to, but are being slowed down because everybody wants to see what happens with Bedard and Johan before the smaller pieces start moving around.

Posted by: nrmax88 | January 29, 2008 at 09:10 AM

I'm pretty sure Cerrone goes to bed every night praying that Santana becomes a Met even with the package of crap they are offering.

Posted by: Josh | January 29, 2008 at 09:12 AM

The Mets offer is garbage. If the Twins wanted it this deal would have been done by now. They want the Yankees prospects and pushing stories that say they would take the Mets crap may make the Yanks come back and talk.

No one believes the Mets will get him for 2 long relievers, an OF'er who cannot hit and an 18 yr old Class A pitcher who doesnt have an off speed pitch.

Posted by: Josh | January 29, 2008 at 09:14 AM

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Re: Craig Monroe wants a chance to replace Torii Hunter in cente

Post  RedMagma on Tue Jan 29, 2008 8:20 am

Erik Bedard rumors could impact Mets' trade for Johan Santana


http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/mets/2008/01/29/2008-01-29_erik_bedard_rumors_could_impact_mets_tra.html?ref=rss


The price the Mets will have to pay for Johan Santana could go higher if Baltimore ace Erik Bedard gets traded.

The Mets might be the only team that remains actively engaged with the Twins on a possible Johan Santana trade but the potential deal may have gotten more complicated yesterday with the news that another major domino in the winter pitching picture is about to fall.

The Orioles are close to trading ace Erik Bedard to Seattle for a package of prospects. That deal might make it harder for the Mets to pry Santana from Minnesota. Baltimore is set to receive outfielder Adam Jones, the Mariners' best young player; George Sherrill, a terrific lefty reliever; and perhaps two other prospects.

It is believed the deal has been agreed upon by Oriole GM Andy MacPhail and his Seattle counterpart, Bill Bavasi, but was being held up awaiting approval of Orioles owner Peter Angelos. The stubborn and meddlesome Angelos is notorious for vetoing deals by his GMs - most recently the one that would have sent shortstop Miguel Tejada to the Angels a couple of years ago - and MacPhail only agreed to take over as O's president last year after getting the assurance that he would have a total free hand in reshaping the ballclub.

With what some believe is a solid return for the Orioles, the Twins likely will be under pressure from their fans to get quality in exchange for Santana.

Several baseball officials said Monday they believed the Mets ultimately would get Santana, but they might have to "flood the deal" with players to satisfy the Twins in the wake of the likely Bedard trade. A Santana deal could be done within 10 days, the St. Paul Pioneer Press recently reported.

Outfielder Carlos Gomez almost certainly would be the centerpiece of a Met offer along with prospects such as Philip Humber, Mike Pelfrey, Deolis Guerra and Kevin Mulvey. The Mets have been reluctant to include 19-year-old outfielder Fernando Martinez, who hit .271 in 60 games for Double-A Binghamton last year.

One sticking point in any Santana trade is the likely extension the two-time Cy Young Award winner will require to waive his no-trade clause. The Twins say they have a four-year, $80 million extension on the table with Santana and that they'd love to re-sign him.

"That's been our No. 1 goal all along. If we could do that, yeah, we'd still like to do that," Minnesota assistant GM Rob Antony told the Minneapolis Star-Tribune in yesterday's editions.

But there is talk in baseball circles that Santana wants a six-year extension worth $150 million. It's unlikely the Twins would offer more than what they already have, a baseball official said.

The Star-Tribune also reported that the Twins intended to ask the Mets, Yankees and Red Sox to make their best offer for Santana. The Yankees and Red Sox, at the moment, don't seem to be actively involved in pursuing Santana and may have only been involved earlier to drive the price up on each other. Yankees GM Brian Cashman has stressed recently that he is "committed to our young players" and would prefer not to make a trade.

The Mariners originally asked about Santana, as well, according to a baseball official, but dropped out because they didn't want to give up Jones and other players and then have to pay Santana big bucks. Bedard has two years remaining before free agency, but Santana, unless he signs an extension, will be a free agent after 2008.

The Mets have held off adding a free agent pitcher such as Livan Hernandez or Kyle Lohse until they see what happens with Santana

The Mets are in a no-win situation, if they empty their mediocre farm system than they have set thenselves back for any deadline or future off season deals. And Santanna alone may not get them past the first round of playoffs. If they don't get Santanna then they are not armed to dominate the national League. Lucky for them their division is weak. I like that the Yankees and Red Sox are holding firm to what they will allow to trade. If the Mets don't trade for Santanna then the Twins will be forced to keep him and not get anything in return. If Santanna is allowed to become a free-agent the sky will be the limit as all of a sudden the Yankees and Redsox will be in a bidding war along with the Mets. I say the Mets should rebuild the farm as the Redsox and and Yankees have begun to do.



Wake Up Omar Jan 29, 2008 7:46:00 AM Report Offensive Post
buddio -- if you're going to post on a METS blog, can you at least know what you're talking about? You made the error yesterday of confusing Pedro Martinez with F-Mart and now you're bashing Omar for not going after Bedard when he most certainly did. (And I don't care if you used words like "potential" you should still do your homework.) As for payroll meaning nothing you're deluding yourself. It gives teams a big advantage and only a Yankee apologist would say it doesn't.

King of Kings Jan 29, 2008 7:49:45 AM Report Offensive Post
im so sick of all this talk about the farm system...I mean, theyre prospects for cryin out loud...and if Fernando Martinez and whoever turn out to be superstars, so what?? What did we get back in return, chopped liver? We're getting a proven commodity here while the Twins are getting alot of quantity and potential. Maybe one or 2 of those prospects pan out. They'll be lucky if one of them does and as I said before, so what? We got what we wanted, an ace. Let them have the all star centerfielder or corner outfielder or even a pitcher. They have the money to rebuild the farm and its a **** of a lot easier to find outfielders thru trades or free agency than it is to get a bona fide ace. This is a no brainer and if Omar doesnt land this guy, he's going to look like a fool for overplaying his hand. I'll give it to him though, he's got guts trying to hold on to Martinez, but thats a dangerous hand to play.

Wake Up Omar Jan 29, 2008 7:50:07 AM Report Offensive Post
If the Mets don't get Santana it will be harder to win the division title, but since neither the Braves or Phillies made any big improvements, the Mets certainly have a good chance. It could be argued that the Braves and Phillies in fact got significantly weaker with their loss of Rowand, Renteria, and Jones. As for the Mets' farm system, I don't think it will set them that far back if they give up 4-5 prospects for Santana. They have 3 first round picks in June and can always supplement the roster with free agent signings. As a big market team they are capable of doing that. They just have to use their money wisely.

Taino12 Jan 29, 2008 8:22:50 AM Report Offensive Post
I'm not the biggest optimist, but you can't say the Mets are "dead" this season without Santana. Way too early to make predictions before a 162 game marathon season, and any trades that take place before the end of July. Also, take history into account: In 2006 they came to within a game of the world series with a rotation of Glavine, Trachsel, Maine and Perez. In 2000, they actually got to the world series with Al Leiter, Mike Hampton, Rick Reed and Bobby Jones, and an outfield of very old/very young players(Rickey Henderson, Darryl Hamilton, Jay Payton, Benny Agbayani, Timo Perez). Yes, get Santana. But it's unlikely that not getting him will be determinative.

Ticopadrino Jan 29, 2008 8:41:55 AM Report Offensive Post
Will people stop crying about payroll already. If having the highest payroll meant World Series victories, then the Yankees would never lose. If the last 7 years have taught us anything, it's that. As a matter of fact, the Mets had the highest payroll in the National League last year. Did that stop them from choking and missing the playoffs? Nope. If only life were so simple. Don't be upset at the teams that spend money. Be upset at the teams that don't. There are no poor owners. Now as to the actual subject of the article........The Mets could really use Santana. It's not like lefty aces in the prime grow on trees. But they would have no farm system after this deal is done. That's quite a price to pay in addition to the 6 year 20+ million the Mets are going to pay him. Not sure I'd do the deal but I understand the pressure to do so. The team is coming off of a historic collapse, who they **** knows how long Pedro will hold up, and they share a big market with the Yank

KDW1969 Jan 29, 2008 8:53:16 AM Report Offensive Post
The Mariners should have given up some good prospects for Bedard, since he is still under Mariners control for 3 more years. The Mets are offering most of their top prospects for Santana, it's time for the Twins to @#$% or get off the pot. The Mets starting pitching is going to be okay - Perez and Maine each won 15 last year. If they duplicate last year, that's good... and if they take the next step to 17-18 wins, then you've got ace-type starters. Pedro I hope gives them a good 25 starts this year... If you don't get Santana, then get Livan Hernandez to eat up 200+ innings as the 4th starter (he'll be okay in a bigger ballpark), and then El Duque/Pelfrey as the 5th starter. Great rotation??? No. As bad as everyone seems to think??? I don't think so!

KDW1969 Jan 29, 2008 8:55:53 AM Report Offensive Post
And the payroll stuff - which is worse? The Yankees bringing in revenues of $300-400 million and spending $200 million on payroll? Or the Marlins getting, I read in some reports, about $60 million in revenue sharing and other loot from the central fund (that's money they received before selling 1 ticket or 1 hot dog), and having a projected payroll of $20 million???

buddio Jan 29, 2008 9:11:14 AM Report Offensive Post
Tico some individuals make the payroll a large part of their argument against teams that spend legally, your correct, that it's an ignorant rant. This homework criticism, is really weak, I clearly stated that maybe Minaya did go after Bedard.

fubarfubar Jan 29, 2008 9:16:20 AM Report Offensive Post
...Huge mistake.....dont make this trade....dont trade your entire farm system for santana .....wait a year and then go after him as a free agent.....

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Post  RedMagma on Tue Jan 29, 2008 8:37 am

Twins ask for last offers, with decision coming soon


http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3220115

Executives involved in the Johan Santana trade talks expect the Minnesota Twins to make their decision soon, perhaps as early as Tuesday, on what they intend to do with the left-handed superstar, after the team asked on Monday for last and best offers from teams involved in the trade talks.

The Twins could weigh the offers and decide to keep Santana into spring training, in the hope that a more aggressive market for the left-hander develops.

For instance: If Andy Pettitte's involvement in the Roger Clemens-Mitchell report case seems to be distracting the left-hander, Hank Steinbrenner -- who has been the most prominent member of the Yankees organization in favor of making a Santana trade -- could spur the team to give the Twins the package they have requested, which includes pitchers Phil Hughes and Ian Kennedy. Or if the Red Sox suffered multiple pitching injuries, they might push for a Santana deal. Or the Twins, who just signed Justin Morneau and Michael Cuddyer to extensions totaling $104 million, might prefer to turn the page and make a deal now. The Mets have the most obvious need for Santana and reason to be the most aggressive, and have indicated a willingness to offer a package of four or five players.

The Red Sox have talked in the past about deals built around either pitcher Jon Lester or center fielder Jacoby Ellsbury. Two sources involved in the discussions say the Red Sox have indicated they won't trade Lester, and another highly placed source says Lester remains on the table. A fourth says the Red Sox are willing to deal Lester only in a package with little window dressing -- in other words, Lester and Coco Crisp and little else.

It's unclear, as well, whether the Red Sox would be willing to offer Santana a deal close to the six-year, $150 million package he will seek in order to approve the trade. Santana has a full no-trade clause and will want an extension in order to approve the deal. The Twins offered him a four-year, $80 million deal, beyond the $13.25 million he is slated to make in 2008.

The Yankees appear to be not presently engaged whatsoever in the Santana talks.

Buster Olney is a senior baseball writer for ESPN The Magazine.

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Post  RedMagma on Tue Jan 29, 2008 8:43 am

http://www.startribune.com/sports/twins/14471202.html

The Twins would like a package from the Yankees that includes righthander Phil Hughes and outfielder Melky Cabrera -- an option that some Twins players quietly prefer. Cabrera, with 16 assists last season, would join Michael Cuddyer (19) and Delmon Young (16) to give the Twins one of the best defensive outfields in baseball.

So now they want the supposed average 4th outfilder Cabrera? The same player they specifically asked for then dissed & now they want him again? image

http://www.nypost.com/seven/01292008/sports/mets/mets__sox_butt_heads_over_santana_993386.htm

January 29, 2008 -- Teams involved in the Johan Santana sweepstakes confirm the Twins have intensified their efforts in the past 48 hours to generate the best offers from the main suitors - and indications are, this has come down to the Mets and the Red Sox for arguably the majors' best starter.

A deal can go down any sec now!!! image

The Yankees have been kept apprised by Minnesota officials of where matters stand but continue to indicate they are following the wishes of Hal Steinbrenner and GM Brian Cashman to protect their prospects and shun this deal.

The Red Sox essentially have sat on their offers since the early December winter meetings. There were reports in recent days that they had pulled Jon Lester from an offer, but officials involved in these discussions deny that. Executives surveyed feel an offer of Lester, Coco Crisp, Jed Lowrie and Justin Masterson is superior to what the Mets can assemble, especially because even yesterday Met officials were saying they were still refusing to include outfield prospects Carlos Gomez and Fernando Martinez in the same deal.

That doesn't mean, however, the Mets are out of it.

"The Mets are legitimately in this," an official from one team involved said. "It would be a mistake to minimize their chances." This official theorized the Twins might be willing to take a deal with the Mets if it is close to Boston's because that would get Santana out of the AL.

YOU HEAR THAT HANK? It's Redsox vs. Mets!!!!!! image

There are Met officials worried their club is being defined as a frontrunner by Minnesota only to see if that will provoke the Yanks back into the action or motivate the Red Sox to offer more.

^^^ Now why would the Redsox care if he goes to the Mets? This is all about getting the Yankees motivated.

Bill Smith's worst nightmare...

Giants vs. Patriots and niether press core will care about Santana for the next 8-9 days.

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Post  RedMagma on Tue Jan 29, 2008 8:44 am

http://www.nypost.com/seven/01282008/sports/mets/report__santana_trade_imminent__mets_hav_148674.htm

The end could finally be near in the Johan Santana sweepstakes.

And the winner is . . . according to a report yesterday in the St. Paul Pioneer Press, the answer likely will be revealed within the next 10 days, before pitchers and catchers report to spring training.

Mets official said last night there's no way of knowing what Twins GM Bill Smith is thinking, but the official sounded optimistic the Mets could close the deal for Santana.

The Mets' package likely would include pitchers Phil Humber, Kevin Mulvey and Deolis Guerra and outfielder Carlos Gomez. The Twins also have sought outfielder Fernando Martinez, but Mets GM Omar Minaya hasn't been willing to include Martinez in a trade.

On Friday, Yankees general manager Brian Cashman stated his position loud and clear, telling a gathering of fans at William Paterson University in New Jersey that he'd like to pass on Santana.

"My strong recommendation is we stick with our young pitching staff and keep it in-house," Cashman said. "That's my recommendation, and we've fought hard to take one step back to take two giant steps forward."


^^^^ With Damon, Beltran & Alex no one knew what the Yankees were really thinking until the last min. Since 2004 it's typically very difficult to read Cashman on big deals. The fact that he is so open with his viewpoints especially whenever he's with Theo makes me VERY suspicious.

The Sox have been clearly exposed as frauds!

Rumours about trading Crisp for Street the day after the Yankees said they were out. Henry recently quoted as saying it's becoming more difficult for the Sox to increase revenues (add another 22-25M for Santana?) & now Lester is off the table after Cashman says his strong recomendation is to keep the kids. image

The only reason Hughes was put on the table in the first place was to stop the phantom deal to the Redsox at the winter meetings. image
Could Cash be laying in the weeds here playing the waiting game like with Philly for Abreu? image

SP Pelfrey, CF Gomez, SP Mulvey, SP Guerra

vs...

SP Kennedy, CF Cabrera, SP Horne or SP Marquez, SP Igawa or 3B/2B Hilligoss or SS Gonzalez

METS LOSE!

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Post  RedMagma on Tue Jan 29, 2008 8:45 am

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/2008/01/27/2008-01-27_general_managers_still_have_many_moves_t.html

Certainly, as long as Johan Santana remains in play, our own GMs, Brian Cashman and Omar Minaya, aren't about to say this is it for their winter's work, although in Cashman's case, it's going to take a significant change in circumstances - the exclusion of Phil Hughes in a possible deal for Santana or new revelations that Andy Pettitte had a deeper involvement in performance-enhancing substances - for him to become re-engaged with Minnesota GM Bill Smith.

"I can't speak for other GMs except to say that it was a bad free agent market this winter and, combined with a lot of emerging young talent colliding with people having a tough time committing to guaranteed contracts, (GMs) are reluctant to move on things," Cashman said.

Cashman went on to say he wouldn't be surprised if, because of those factors, some teams waited until spring training before making their big moves. "It may be unusual for big deals to be made this late," he said, "but from my standpoint, I made two of my biggest ones - for A-Rod and Clemens - right before spring training."

^^^^^ things that make you go hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Bails has always thought and my initial thoughts early on were that eventually the Twins would settle on a package centered on IPK

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Re: Craig Monroe wants a chance to replace Torii Hunter in cente

Post  RedMagma on Tue Jan 29, 2008 8:49 am

Jan 29, 2008 10:34 am - Buzz: Twins May Make a Decison Today

http://www.metsblog.com/


...posted by Stupid Mets Fan and homer Matthew Cerrone...

According to a report by Buster Olney at ESPN.com, “Executives involved in the Johan Santana trade talks expect the Twins to make their decision soon, perhaps as early as Tuesday, on what they intend to do with the left-handed superstar.”

In short, as Olney explains, since the Yankees are ‘not presently engaged,’ the Twins will need to decide if they should pull the trigger on a deal now or wait to see how other team’s pitching staffs develop during spring training, and instead try to move Santana then.

…kill me, kill me now…seriously, if this thing drags on beyond pitchers and catchers i may have to punch myself in the face…

…as i have been saying all along, the Mets best card in this deal is knowing that santana prefers to pitch in Queens, as people close to him have told me, and as i have been writing for months now…so, johan, buddy, come on now…lean on the Twins, will ya…i mean, if you threaten to veto any trade made after pitchers and catchers report, the Twins will have to consider a move now…if you keep quiet, who knows how long this will take…which, while good for the Twins, is terrible for me…

…for what it’s worth, as i mentioned over the weekend, i believe santana and his agent may have made a request to get this process moving, but i don’t feel it was anything formal or threatening…in other words, not…good…enough…
Mets have Best deal for Santana? Is this a Joke? lol

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Post  RedMagma on Tue Jan 29, 2008 8:54 am

Bill Smith getting off the pot soon? I’ll believe it when I see it.

He may once again decide not to decide and merely keep Johan through spring training and beyond. I have a feeling that is the decision he will make. If I were a Twins fan, I’d be upset at Bill Smith.




haha baseball players love to ruin other big events…..

hopefully Peter Angelos screws the Orioles again and halts this Bedard trade so it has no effect on this trade.

I now ill be locked onto this site every 10 mintues waititng to see the headline… ITS OVER..SANTANA TRADED TO…….

MetsBlog > Work

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