"I couldn't have taken steroids, beca

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"I couldn't have taken steroids, beca

Post  RedMagma on Tue Jan 29, 2008 11:54 am

"I couldn't have taken steroids, because I worked very hard."

http://blogs.trb.com/sports/baseball/blog/


My least favorite refutations of steroids allegations are those in which the accused offers a non-defense defense. One which doesn't at all preclue the steroids usage.

Jason Giambi, back before his grand-jury testimony was unjustly leaked, used to complain about the steroids rumors surrounding him, saying something equivalent to, "I'm working my *** off in the batting cage." Similarly, when Jose Canseco's book came out, Tony La Russa defended Mark McGwire by recalling McGwire's incredible work ethic.

Of course, it's no great leap to say that illegal, performance-enhancing drugs aid and abet those very off-the-field workouts, rather than the two items being mutually exclusive.

Which brings us to the Roger Clemens Report, which Clemens' representative Randy Hendricks released yesterday with the thought of putting Clemens' remarkable career in a new light. There are theories and explanations that attempt to shoot down the notion that Clemens' late-career surge was attributable to steroids.

It's a very interesting study, even more so if you dropped in from Mars and had no idea why such a report was being compiled. But it hardly lays a glove on Brian McNamee and his accusations, because the report could be 100 percent accurate (and it isn't, as Rob Neyer explains here), and it wouldn't challenge any of the Mitchell Report.

Undoubtedly, Clemens is an extremely smart pitcher who, as his velocity dropped, relied increasingly upon a split-fingered fastball and two-seam fastball, as Hendricks argues. His "legal" workouts, and the way prepared for every start, watching mounds of video, are legendary. But just like with Giambi and McGwire, why couldn't he have done all of that, PLUS the steroids?

Furthermore, Hendricks and his associates break out a chart of "peak" 1-5 month periods in Clemens' career; there are a total of 24. But two of those 24 constitute two of McNamee's three alleged periods of steroids usage. In July and August of 1998, Clemens put up a 1.25 ERA, and in July 2000, Clemens talled a 1.91 ERA. Hendricks points out that Clemens recorded an even longer, more dominant stretch in 1997, so that 1998 surge shouldn't seem so unusual. Yet a cynic would respond, "Who's to say Clemens wasn't using illegal PEDs in 1997, too? He just didn't meet McNamee until 1998."

I covered the 2000 Yankees. For his first year and a half in pinstripes, Clemens was surprisingly mediocre. Then, when he returned from the disabled list, that July, he was a completely different pitcher: Better velocity, better bite to the splitter, more confident. We all thought, "What the heck happened to this guy?" I find it pretty believable that steroids helped create that guy. Hendricks points out that Clemens' August ERA that year went back up to 3.23, but that's still quite good, and a considerable improvement from the prior year and a half.

I admire Hendricks for putting this report together. I admire Clemens for throwing heat under the chin of the profoundly conflicted George Mitchell. Mitchell deserves far more scrutiny that he has received, as I might have mentioned in the past. But ultimately, this report does virtually nothing to refute the former Senator's work.

# Speaking of the Mitchell Report, Newsday's Anthony Rieber has a running tally of the accused players' responses. Oakland's Jack Cust was the latest to speak publicly. Check it out here.

# If you're into memorabilia, you'll want to check out Whitey Ford's collection for sale at the DHL All-Star FanFest, July 14-15 at the Jacob Javits Center in Manhattan. Ford held a news conference yesterday to officially announce his sale _ it was time to make more room in the house for him and his wife, he said _ and he has some cool stuff available. My personal favorite: A baseball signed to Ford from John F. Kennedy, although I won't be paying the recommended $30,000-$40,000 bid

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Re: "I couldn't have taken steroids, beca

Post  RedMagma on Tue Jan 29, 2008 12:08 pm

Santana race could be nearing finish
Decision regarding ace left-hander could come this week
By Kelly Thesier / MLB.com


http://minnesota.twins.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20080129&content_id=2358622&vkey=news_min&fext=.jsp&c_id=min



MINNEAPOLIS -- After months of speculation, the Johan Santana sweepstakes might finally be heading for the home stretch.

Indications from Twins officials are that the team will make a decision on their ace sometime this week. The Twins have stepped up their efforts in the last 48 hours to get the teams involved in trade talks to make their last and best offers.

If the Twins feel that none of the offers is acceptable, they could prepare to head to Spring Training with Santana and wait to see if a better market develops for the left-hander.

The Mets and Red Sox still appear to be the front-runners. Of all the contenders, the Mets have the biggest need for starting pitching and have appeared recently to be the most aggressive candidate.

A report from Impacto Deportivo on Monday said that Mets outfielder Carlos Gomez has been pulled from the Caribbean World Series, fueling speculation that a deal could be close. But Mets officials told The New York Post that it was their plan to limit Gomez's games and that his absence was not a sign that a trade is forthcoming.

The Mets package has been rumored to include Gomez and pitchers Delios Guerra, Kevin Mulvey and Philip Humber. The Twins would prefer for the Mets to add prospect Fernando Martinez to the deal, but New York has thus far been reluctant to part with the outfielder.

The Red Sox have stuck by their two packages, one headlined by left-hander Jon Lester and the other by outfielder Jacoby Ellsbury. Twins officials shot down the rumors this weekend that Lester had been taken out of any of Boston's proposals.

Twins officials also said that they remain in contact with the Yankees and do not view the club to be out of the running. But multiple reports have stated that the Yankees are backtracking. That sentiment was reinforced by New York general manager Brian Cashman, who said recently that he would prefer to pass over Santana and keep his young pitching.

One of the main stumbling blocks in trade talks has been the deal that Santana is reportedly seeking, close to a six-year, $150 million extension. The left-hander has a full no-trade clause and would have to approve any deal.

Twins assistant GM Rob Antony said this weekend that the team's offer to Santana remains on the table. That offer is reportedly worth four years and $80 million, in addition to the $13.25 million he will earn in 2008. But though the Twins have said that their preference is to re-sign Santana, that seems highly unlikely, as the two-time Cy Young Award winner appears to be seeking a maximum payday.

Hot Stove

And despite the club spending $104 million on contract extensions for first baseman Justin Morneau and outfielder Michael Cuddyer this week, there is no indication that it would increase their offer enough to be within Santana's range.

Kelly Thesier is a reporter for MLB.com. This story was not subject to the approval of Major League Baseball or its clubs.

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Re: "I couldn't have taken steroids, beca

Post  RedMagma on Tue Jan 29, 2008 12:18 pm

"I can play that game too. The Twins obviously dont want the Yankees package."

lol are you serious please tell me this is a joke. don't want the yankees package?????/ no no no they want the yank package they just want too much.

"They dont want a young and unproven"

wait a minute isn't that what every kid in the met package is. i swear this guy should do stand up.

"not to mention injury prone Phil Hughes"

but yet they are still asking for him.

" who has yet to prove anything."

lol he's proven more than any kid in the met package

"They also dont want Melky, pretty much the worst starting CF in all of baseball. And why would they want scrubs like Marquez and Kennedy"

once again better than anyone in the met package.

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Re: "I couldn't have taken steroids, beca

Post  RedMagma on Tue Jan 29, 2008 12:23 pm

Hey Felix can you give a little summary on Latest BA on George Kontos? Thanks

http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/

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Re: "I couldn't have taken steroids, beca

Post  RedMagma on Tue Jan 29, 2008 12:30 pm

Originally Posted by yank4life2005
So who can fall to us in the 1st round? Perhaps there are several kids represented by Boras that would potentially scare off clubs in selecting them.

We were so close with Rick Porcello last year.

I don't even want to think about that anymore. I was so pissed

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Re: "I couldn't have taken steroids, beca

Post  RedMagma on Tue Jan 29, 2008 12:33 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by scooterfan
This is interesting - Mike & Mad Dog are reporting that Santana turned down a 5 yr/100 mil extension:
http://www.metsblog.com/2008/01/29/b...r-twins-offer/

Cerrone quotes Mike as saying the Mets are 'front and center'

What's interesting about this - didn't Hank Steinbrenner say something about refusing to go further than a 5-year extension?

I guess this explains in part why the Yankees seemingly are out of this thing.

The question - what will it take to sign Santana? 7/140?

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Re: "I couldn't have taken steroids, beca

Post  RedMagma on Tue Jan 29, 2008 1:16 pm

Down to two
Yanks appear out while Mets, BoSox vie for Santana

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/writers/jon_heyman/01/29/heyman.santanaupdate/index.html




The long-running Johan Santana sweepstakes, which may be coming to a conclusion within days, appear now to be a two-team race between the Mets and Red Sox. While this derby has taken several twists and turns and has been difficult to predict, the Twins appear to be in more regular contact with the Mets in recent days, which could be an indication that they are leading as the finish line approaches.

Some baseball officials believe an agreement on the players could be struck as early as Tuesday. But even if the Twins and Mets agree on player compensation, the Mets will have to lure Santana with a multiyear deal. Santana has a full no-trade clause and the power to veto any deal.

Should the Mets reach an accord on the players with Minnesota, the Mets will try to entice Santana with a rich five-year offer. He is believed to be seeking a six-year deal, or even a seven-year deal, but the Mets will hope to offset that request with a high annual salary, which can be expected to be in the range of $22-to-25 million. They are said to be adamant in not wanting to go beyond five years for any pitcher.

The Mets' latest offer is believed to include outfield prospect Carlos Gomez plus pitching prospects Phil Humber, Kevin Mulvey and Deolis Guerra. However, the Mets have balked at including a second top outfield prospect, Fernando Martinez. It's still possible the Mets could enhance that four-man package another way, though.

There are no signs that the Twins are in regular contact with the Red Sox. Word is, Boston has stuck with its two proposals from weeks ago. One was for pitcher Jon Lester, outfielder Coco Crisp, pitching prospect Justin Masterson and infield prospect Jed Lowrie, and the other led with center feielder Jacoby Ellsbury but did not include Lester.

Meanwhile, the Yankees have told the Twins that they will now no longer include young pitcher Phil Hughes in any deal and appear to be just about out of the running now, if not completely out.

The Mets' package is long on potential. Gomez is seen as a possible star, who would become a star or may only be a fourth outfielder. He has speed and a great arm, but some remain uncertain whether he will develop as a hitter. Martinez is more of a sure thing as a hitter but his upside isn't as high, and while the Twins would like him, too, they could use a center fielder after losing Torii Hunter to free agency.

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Re: "I couldn't have taken steroids, beca

Post  RedMagma on Tue Jan 29, 2008 1:53 pm

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3220115

Let me start by saying, I am not at all convinced the Yankees are not just waiting on the Twins here, which is something Steinbrenner said a month ago.

There is also the possibility that the Yankees have "removed Hughes from all offers" because they see what the Mets are offering and don't see any reason to include Hughes...

But, IF EITHER scenario is true - if the Yankees are really out and the Twins deal Santana to the Mets for a bunch of swiss cheese prospects, OR they end up dealing Santana to the Yankees for a package that does not include Hughes - ...

If EITHER of those two things happens, Bill Smith should be fired before the press conference.

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Re: "I couldn't have taken steroids, beca

Post  RedMagma on Tue Jan 29, 2008 2:02 pm

IF Arod cost #30 Million, What's Manny's worth? Do you think Many will want a raise ?

Ramirez has two rings with the Red Sox, and finally got through a year without asking to be dealt. He has the most history with the Red Sox and I agree that Epstein won't let a first ballot Hall of Famer walk away. I think Epstein wants to retain both Ramirez and Varitek until they retire. If either player leaves the Red Sox before retiring, Red Sox rules wouldn't allow for their numbers to be retired.

What do the years 1998 and 2007 have in common? Those are the last two years in which Manny Ramirez didn't lead American League outfielders in OPS. So what can we expect from the AL's best offensive outfielder in 2008? Well, that's the "beauty" of Manny; no one really knows.

Ramirez was hurt by two things last year. Firstly, he got off to an especially slow start at the plate. In the first half of the season Manny hit just .284/.385/.465. But this is nothing new. In 2005, Manny's best offensive season with the Red Sox, he hit only .275/.361/.549 in the first half.

Ramirez isn't always in the best shape when he comes into Spring Training. Often times, he'll show up late. And when he does show up, he doesn't always look ready to play. Will things be different in 2008? Who knows.

I will say one thing though, and I mean this half jokingly, half serious. If Manny shows up to Spring Training in shape and on time this year, for the first time in many years, he could be primed for quite the year.

There are signs that Ramirez is finally realizing he isn't 30 any more. According to Peter Gammons, Manny's become a "manicle workout warrior". Manicle is Gammons' word, not mine. Gammons provides a brief first hand account of Manny's workouts, describing them as "extremely difficult."

Then, there is the second issue which hampered Manny's performance in 2007. For the second year in a row, Ramirez missed significant time due to an injury. Ramirez has typically been rather consistent with his health, playing 150+ games a season. The last two years, however, his playing time has been more like 130 games a year. Fortunately, Manny's 2006 and 2007 injuries are likely unrelated.

In 2006, Manny Ramirez suffered from patellar tendinitis in his right knee. In 2007, he suffered from a strained oblique in his right leg. Each injury caused him to miss about a month of playing time. I'm no doctor, but in my opinion, these injuries are likely related to the age of Ramirez. Patellar tendinitis specifically isn't an injury usually seen in baseball players. It is more often seen in basketball and soccer players, as it is a sign of excessive wear on the knee joint.

Manny Ramirez is going to be 36-years-old in 2008. I think he's clearly at risk for injury, but at this point in his career I wouldn't label him an injury liability. Even when he has been hurt, he's played 130+ games. Getting into better physical shape could lower his risk for injury. Still, I wouldn't be surprised to see him need a little time off in the second half of 2008.

If Ramirez plays a full season in 2008, I see no reason why he couldn't hit 40 home runs and drive in 120. He finally appears to be happy in Boston, and he'll be playing for a $20 million team option in 2009. Ramirez will also have some serious OBP guys in front of him in Ellsbury (.394), Pedroia (.380) and Ortiz (.445). And after Lowell's 2007 season, pitchers and managers may be more wary of pitching around Ramirez.

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Re: "I couldn't have taken steroids, beca

Post  RedMagma on Tue Jan 29, 2008 2:08 pm

Jan 29, 2008 3:06 pm - Buzz: Mets Have the Bets Offer on Table

http://www.metsblog.com/


...posted by Matthew Cerrone...

…Update…3:50 pm…

According to Buster Olney at ESPN.com:

“Baseball officials involved in the Johan Santana talks say the Mets have the best offer on the table, as the Twins looked to honor a request by the pitcher to resolve the situation.”

…like i said yesterday, santana and his agents made a request over the weekend to get this process moving, but i didn’t feel it was anything formal or threatening…well, apparently it was…nice work, johan…way to be the boss…

…by the way, my head is pounding…








…Update…3:06 pm…

In a report to ESPN.com, in which he states a decision could come as early as today, Buster Olney writes…

“Some officials engaged in the talks strongly believed that Santana will land with Mets. Early Tuesday, Mets executives are quietly hopeful that they could land the left-hander with a package of players, so long as the Twins backed off their insistence that shortstop Jose Reyes be included in the deal.”

According to Jon Heyman in a report for SI.com, if the Mets end up agreeing to a trade with the Twins for Santana, they’re likely to offer him no more than a five-year deal, but at a high annual salary in the range of $22-to-25 million.

Interestingly, according to WFAN, Santana recently turned down a five-year, $100 million contract offer from the Twins, because he is still holding out for a seven-year, $140 million deal.

…so, if heyman is correct, the Mets offer would be only a few million dollars more per year than what he rejected from the Twins…from what i can gather, this is because he has zero interest in re-signing with the Twins, who can now go to their fans and say, “Hey, we tried.”…at least that’s how i see it…

Like Joel Sherman wrote this morning in the New York Post, Heyman notes that the race for Santana is down to teams: the Mets and Red Sox.

…thanks to Jason B for the link…

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Post  RedMagma on Tue Jan 29, 2008 2:10 pm

Mets the front-runner? Sources say N.Y. has best Santana offer



http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3220115


Baseball officials involved in the Johan Santana trade talks say the Mets have the best offer on the table, as the Twins looked to honor the pitcher's request to resolve the situation.

Johan Santana

Santana
If Minnesota opts to trade the two-time Cy Young Award winner rather than keep him and he works out a new contract extension, Santana could fill the hole at the front of the Mets' rotation.

The Red Sox also made offers, while the Yankees appeared to be out of the Santana talks altogether. But by mid-day Tuesday, Mets officials were hopeful they were the front-runners for the All-Star lefty, with an offer that included center fielder Carlos Gomez, pitcher Phil Humber and two other minor leaguers. It is not yet known whether the Mets have fashioned any offers around their best prospect, outfielder Fernando Martinez.

The agent for Santana, Peter Greenberg, would not comment on whether he has been told the Mets have worked out a trade for his client, or about Santana's request for resolution.

Santana, who completely controls his fate because of the full no-trade clause he possesses, asked the Twins to make a decision, which is why Minnesota imposed the deadline for offers from the interested teams.

It is not known if Santana explicitly informed the Twins that he would invoke his no-trade clause and then file for free agency after the 2008 season, but that has always been his right. It appears the Twins have taken his request seriously.

Among the three suitors for Santana, the Mets have the strongest need for a frontline starter, as well as the greatest willingness to pay him the enormous extension he will demand in order to waive his no-trade clause. It is expected that Santana's request will be for a deal in the range of six years for $150 million. If the Mets indeed work out a tentative deal for Santana, they won't conclude the trade unless they can sign him.

The Twins also have the option of keeping Santana into spring training, in the hope that a more aggressive market for the left-hander develops.

For instance, if Andy Pettitte's involvement in the Roger Clemens' case seems to be distracting the left-hander, it may be that Hank Steinbrenner, who has been the most prominent member of the organization in favor of making a Santana trade, could spur the Yankees to give the Twins the package they have requested, including pitchers Phil Hughes and Ian Kennedy. Or if the Red Sox suffered multiple pitching injuries, they might push to make a deal.

But if the Twins believe Santana will not waive his no-trade now that his requested date for resolution has passed, this may add pressure on them to finish the deal.

If the Twins keep Santana through the year, until he becomes a free agent, they would receive two draft picks in compensation if he signed with another team. The Twins, who just signed Justin Morneau and Michael Cuddyer to extensions totaling $104 million, might prefer to turn the page and make a deal now.

The Red Sox have talked in the past about deals built around either pitcher Jon Lester or center fielder Jacoby Ellsbury. Two sources involved in the discussions say the Red Sox have indicated they won't trade Lester, and another highly placed source says Lester remains on the table. A fourth says the Red Sox are willing to deal Lester only in a package with little window dressing -- in other others, Lester and center fielder Coco Crisp and little else. It's unclear, as well, whether the Red Sox will be willing to offer Santana a contract close to the $150 million package he will seek, in order to approve the trade.

The Twins extended a four-year, $80 million offer to Santana, well beyond the $13.25 million he is scheduled to make in 2008. That offer is still on the table.

Buster Olney is a senior writer for ESPN The Magazine.

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Post  RedMagma on Tue Jan 29, 2008 2:19 pm

I guaranteed NY Yankees will not make the playoffs next year. Who's the Yankees Ace? Wang and Pettite? Are you kidding me Michael? Did you watch Wang's perfomance last year in the playoffs? The Yankees are relying on young kids? With The Distraction put on Pettite and He's name was put on Mitchell Report.






The Yankees can afford Santana because $60+ million of next year payroll are coming off the books. Mussina,Giambi,Pavano,Farnsworth. The Yankees will have a New Stadium like NY Mets. The Yankees needs an ace after Wang pitching poorly in the playoffs against Indians. The Redsox doesn't need Santana because They're already have Beckett. Mets have a Pedro. Do The Yankees have an Ace in their rotation? The Mets rotation would look like this if they add Santana. Pedro,Johan, and O.Perez. If NY Mets trade for Johan after The Yankees who did struggle hitting Odalis Perez and Pedro coming back. I think Mets will have a better rotation than The Yankees. This is why Yankees should fire Brian Cashman. Brian is the same Gm who traded for Randy Johnson and signed Roger Clemens.Also, He sign Carl Pavano to a contract and trade for Javier Vazquez, Kevin Brown. Now He's scared not make a deal and trade for Johan aka Best pitcher in baseball? That's why Yankees will not win W.s anytime soon as Cashman and his stupid decisions with starting pitching.. Trade for Johan now... I'm sick Phil Stinkin and overrated Hughes. I think Yankees should make this deal after losing to Dice-K to the Redsox last year instead Cashman signed Igawa.

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Post  RedMagma on Tue Jan 29, 2008 2:20 pm

I guaranteed NY Yankees will not make the playoffs next year. Who's the Yankees Ace? Wang and Pettite? Are you kidding me Michael? Did you watch Wang's perfomance last year in the playoffs? The Yankees are relying on young kids? With The Distraction put on Pettite and He's name was put on Mitchell Report.






The Yankees can afford Santana because $60+ million of next year payroll are coming off the books. Mussina,Giambi,Pavano,Farnsworth. The Yankees will have a New Stadium like NY Mets. The Yankees needs an ace after Wang pitching poorly in the playoffs against Indians. The Redsox doesn't need Santana because They're already have Beckett. Mets have a Pedro. Do The Yankees have an Ace in their rotation? The Mets rotation would look like this if they add Santana. Pedro,Johan, and O.Perez. If NY Mets trade for Johan after The Yankees who did struggle hitting Odalis Perez and Pedro coming back. I think Mets will have a better rotation than The Yankees. This is why Yankees should fire Brian Cashman. Brian is the same Gm who traded for Randy Johnson and signed Roger Clemens.Also, He sign Carl Pavano to a contract and trade for Javier Vazquez, Kevin Brown. Now He's scared not make a deal and trade for Johan aka Best pitcher in baseball? That's why Yankees will not win W.s anytime soon as Cashman and his stupid decisions with starting pitching.. Trade for Johan now... I'm sick Phil Stinkin and overrated Hughes. I think Yankees should make this deal after losing to Dice-K to the Redsox last year instead Cashman signed Igawa.

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Re: "I couldn't have taken steroids, beca

Post  RedMagma on Tue Jan 29, 2008 2:22 pm

Meanwhile, the Yankees have told the Twins that they will now no longer include young pitcher Phil Hughes in any deal and appear to be just about out of the running now, if not completely out.

The Mets' package is long on potential. Gomez is seen as a possible star, who would become a star or may only be a fourth outfielder. He has speed and a great arm, but some remain uncertain whether he will develop as a hitter. Martinez is more of a sure thing as a hitter but his upside isn't as high, and while the Twins would like him, too, they could use a center fielder after losing Torii Hunter to free agency._____________________

I'm a little annoyed about the Santana trade scenario. 1) I have some doubt whether Hughes will be the guy with a 93-94 mph fastball who doesn't continue to pull muscles and twist ankles and did have an ERA over 4.00 in his starts. 2) Gomez has demonstrated a propensity to strike out alot with little power. The other pitchers being offered are projected # 3 starters at best and one of them is only 18 years old. 3) Santana should continue to be effective when he's in his later 30s because of the type of pitcher he is- doesn't rely on fastball velocity and mixes pitches with good control. Give him the contract.4) Yanks will be losing approximately 45 million off the payroll within two years due to expiring contracts


Good for the Yankees- I've said all along it's not right that they were offering Hughes and Boston did not have to offer Buchholz, sorry but Lester is not Hughes, and Crisp is not Melky, the Twins missed the best package they were going to get AND Johan would have gotten his money but no, they got greedy and guess what? they'll be settling with less players now and the possibility that Johan denies this 5 year offer.

Get ready for the draft Twins, Boston will balk too, Cashman and Epstein worked it all out.

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Post  RedMagma on Tue Jan 29, 2008 2:22 pm

Twins agree to deal Santana to Mets for prospects

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/2008-01-29-twins-mets-santana_N.htm



The New York Mets have agreed to a trade for two-time Cy Young Award winner Johan Santana, giving up four prospects to acquire the left-handed ace of the Minnesota Twins, according to two high-ranking Twins officials with knowledge of the talks and a person close to Santana.

The deal is pending the Mets and Santana reaching agreement on a six- or seven-year contract extension and that Santana passes a physical; they have been granted a 48 to-72-hour window to do so. Santana has a no-trade clause that he will waive if agreement is reached on a contract extension.

The Mets paid a high price in prospects to land Santana, agreeing to send the Twins outfielder Carlos Gomez and pitchers Phil Humber, Deolis Guerra and Kevin Mulvey.

The deal would give the Mets the much-needed ace at the front of their rotation. Santana won the American League Cy Young Award in 2004 and 2006 and is 93-44 lifetime. He went 15-13 with a 3.33 ERA for the Twins last season. Santana has struck out at least 235 batters each of the past four seasons.

While the deal drains much of the talent out of the Mets' farm system, they did manage to hold on to top prospect Fernando Martinez, an outfielder. Instead, they headed the package with Gomez, who turned 22 in December and spent 58 games with the Mets last year.

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Re: "I couldn't have taken steroids, beca

Post  RedMagma on Tue Jan 29, 2008 2:31 pm

As a Mets fan I really like the players the mets would be giving up.

Gomez is going to be really good. He was brought up to the Majors too soon. With injuries to Beltran and Alou the Mets had to bring him up early. He's faster than Reyes, plays good defense. With his speed, he covers a ton of ground in the outfield. When he matures, he's going to lead the league in steals and hit for power and average.

Mulvey already has command of 4 pitches and has a very high ceiling. He is fearless and has no problem going right after hitters.

Humber before his shoulder injury was an ace in the making. He has the best curveball in the Mets organization and still may very well be a future ace.

Guerra is very young but has a chance to someday be the next Johan Santana.



Really? I kind of think it would be foolish for them to have him learn to throw left handed.

Not to mention that you can never project someone to win a cy young when they are 18. He hasn't even proven it in the minors yet. When he shows he can dominate major leaguers for over 200 innings a season for a few seasons, then you get to start making comparisons to guys like santana.

as a mets fan i'd rather see martinez get traded. i've never seen f-mart, but i've sceen gomez. he's going to hit for more power. he's the fastest player in baseball. he's quicker than carl crawford and faster than jose reyes. he doesn't have the greatest instincts in the of, however he makes up for a few bad jumps with his speed. with time he'll be a better outfielder. he can also jump really high. did any of you see the catch he made leaping over the wall at yankee stadium to take away a home run away.

Gomez is a better at this time and he's always going to be better defensively. He is also going to be a better base stealer than Martinez. However, martinez will probably hit more homeruns. that being said, do you want the all around guy in Gomez or the kid that can hit 5 to 10 more bombs a year.

The Lester, Crisp, Masterson and Lowrie is a better deal than the ones the Mets have offered and they are both suposedly on the table.

I disagree! The Boston players are more Major league ready which makes them better for the moment. However, when Mulvey and Humber numbers get called they are going to be good ball players. Gomez and Guerra have a chance to be awesome.

You are just going to have to forgive me for making a joke man. However, you guys are really funny. Coming over here talking up your prospects and highlighting all the risks around santana. I should just tell you that bill smith doesnt post here, and we have no say. You aren't going to sell me on your prospects being a better bet than johan right now. His health you say? Humber has many more concerns there, and 18 year old fireballers flame out all the time. The posters here are mixed. Some like the package above, I would do it right now if the deal was (gomez/fmart/guerra/mulvey/young position prospect not mentioned previously) I figure at least 2 of those 4 will make it as a solid player, maybe even one all-star, which would be fair for a pitcher like santana early in his prime.

I know you guys think thats too much, but you keep pelfrey and "ace material" humber and even in 2009 you are well set with santana/perez/maine/pelfrey/humber. I mean really thats better than missing out. Thats just if I was GM, which I'm not.

Thats not to say that the trade wont happen for the guys you listed, I'm just telling you that's who I would demand, otherwise I'd turn to the other NY offer (which is still there I guarrantee it).

Lester is a proven pitcher, something the Mets deal doesn't have. Humber has an injury history and Guerra already had some shoulder problems from what I read. Crisp isn't great but the Twins have CF prospects so MLB ready might be best for that position. Lowie and Masterson are both high potential guys.

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Post  RedMagma on Tue Jan 29, 2008 2:32 pm

USA Today is reporting Mets and Twins have agreed to a deal: Carlos Gomez and pitchers Phil Humber, Deolis Guerra and Kevin Mulvey for Santana...

Now, you can talk about Smith had no power and no cards til you're blue in the face...

Bottom line: Hughes, Cabrera, Marquez and another prospect WAS on the table at one point... Smith waited, and he ended up with THIS...

That is enough to get a guy fired.


The 3 of the Mets top 4 prospects. I don't believe it. Fernando Martinez HAS got to be part of that deal for the twins to bite. If Martinez is included, thats a raping of a farm system.

The names in a big deal are ALWAYS a bit off. Id be shocked if Martinez isn't included.


nearly all of them has serious questions or upside limitations.

Twins blew it.

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Post  RedMagma on Tue Jan 29, 2008 2:36 pm

thats the what makes the move so great! We keep F-Mart and Pelfrey!

Santana
Pedro
O.P.
Maine
Duque/Pelfrey

we have the best rotation in the NL!

Now time to buy a Mets home pinstripe jersey with the number 57 on the back!!!

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Post  RedMagma on Tue Jan 29, 2008 2:37 pm

Agreed. But if this story is valid, that is NOW about as barren as a farm system can get.

And even if the Mets do sign Santana, which I think is great for them, there is still that undercurrent, something hideous with a core of Mets players. A collapse like that doesn't just happen, there are some bad apples on that team, and they will have to be trimmed away.

But, I can't say I am unhappy with the Mets getting him. I glad to take a chance with the young guys. I want to see what happens.


The 3 of the Mets top 4 prospects. I don't believe it. Fernando Martinez HAS got to be part of that deal for the twins to bite. If Martinez is included, thats a raping of a farm system.

The names in a big deal are ALWAYS a bit off. Id be shocked if Martinez isn't included.

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Re: "I couldn't have taken steroids, beca

Post  RedMagma on Tue Jan 29, 2008 2:37 pm

The Twins won't trade Santana to the Mets without getting F. Martinez in return. It's that simple.

Posted by: jehu | January 29, 2008 at 03:05 PM

It's amazing how a team that supposibly has a "Crap" Farm System has managed to put togeather the best offer for Johan Santana, no?
----

It's only the best offer because the Yankees are out of it. And frankly the players still on the table for the Sox are far better than the ones being offered by the Mets. Jon Lester isn't even in the same universe of Humber and Mulvey; he's better than them by light-years.

Posted by: baileywalk | January 29, 2008 at 03:06 PM

Of course, if you listen to scouts. Carlos Gomez has the upside of "Jimmy Rollins in the Outfield" in that someone with his frame and style swing, it's only a matter of time until he adds power to his frame. Deolis Guerra features Stud upside with a 95 mph fastball and a Changeup that is reminiscent of Mr. Santana or Hamels. Kevin Mulvey is a classic 4 pitch pitcher who will out think you, think a better version of Brian Bannister, and Phil Humber still has one of the best curveballs in the game. It's not as bad a package as you're making it out to be.

Posted by: AdropOFvenom | January 29, 2008 at 03:08 PM

"If the Mets went out with the team they have now, I feel like they could compete, and the results would be similar to last year (the record, not the collapse).

I think the Mets getting Johan would make them the favorites to win the division, and possibly the NL."

I'd love to see Mets v. Diamondbacks NLCS next year. (my buddies, largely Phillies fans, would probably lynch me for saying that...)


"You sure about that? I mean, Matthews, Klapisch, and well informed fans think otherwise. I mean, the Phillies just picked up Pedro Feliz. PEDRO FELIZ! And now they are looking at Kris Benson!"

Well, he (Feliz) WAS first among third basemen defensively last year according to the fielding bible (http://www.billjamesonline.net/fieldingbible/charts/leaders1-07.gif). Hopefully his OPS will increase a bit as well moving to more of a batters'park. I mean obviously he's not gonna reinvent the team...but the signing probably was a decent upgrade (compared to platooning dobbs/helms like they were expected). Or maybe they're planning some kooky three way platoon between the three of them... I dunno.

Posted by: gfulla | January 29, 2008 at 03:12 PM

Feliz has value. No doubt the glove is tasty. However, you have to factor in the offensive explosion that Rowand had.

Rowand was about 4 wins more valuable according to WARP1 so they are still looking to make up those wins. Does Werth/Jenkins do it?

Posted by: themetros | January 29, 2008 at 03:15 PM

Johan has been traded to the Mets:

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/2008-01-29-twins-mets-santana_N.htm

Posted by: corsi combover | January 29, 2008 at 03:15 PM

Swellicious on the Santana front. No F-mart!

Actually they are about even with the Werth/Jenkins platoon and Feliz when compared to Helms and Rowand. Helms had a negative value in 112 games.

No esta bien. Regardless, I fail to see how anyone in the NL appreciably improved. It is still and always has been a three team race.

Posted by: themetros | January 29, 2008 at 03:19 PM

That should have read 'anyone in the NL East BESIDES the Mets'.

Amazing what a bunch of crappy prospects can get. How could so many people have been so wrong? Mystifying.

Posted by: themetros | January 29, 2008 at 03:23 PM

1) If true, ABOUT FREAKING TIME!
2) That's a good deal for the Mets and puts them as the instant favorites in the NL East.

Posted by: start_wearing_purple | January 29, 2008 at 03:25 PM

Wow, the Mets have just hurdled the competition; I don't think anyone (outside Philly) can say they aren't the lockstep favorites after this. Very impressive.

Posted by: Devlsh | January 29, 2008 at 03:25 PM

Phew... Done! (ish)

Posted by: Cubsin2100 | January 29, 2008 at 03:27 PM

It can't...really...be over. Can it? After all this time? Am i finally free from my computer? Please tell me it's true! Grats Mets fans btw, assuming you're one of the ones happy with the trade Smile

Posted by: gfulla | January 29, 2008 at 03:27 PM

come on block it with a no trade clause, so this can go on for a few more months!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: ArodSucksAtLife | January 29, 2008 at 03:28 PM

I for one am very happy. F-Mart and Pelfrey stay and the Mets still landed him.

I agree with Cubsin2100 though, it's Done! (ish). The six or seven year deal will get hammered out, but still one last caveat before celbrating.

Posted by: themetros | January 29, 2008 at 03:29 PM

Plaese just give him the money omar and...


Lets GO Baby!!!

Posted by: Dee Edge | January 29, 2008 at 03:30 PM

I kinda hope it is true. My personal preference has always been for the Twins to somehow keep him. But the Mets getting him is a close second. And I say that as a Yankee fan.

In case any of you are wondering what we're going to do with all of our free time now that the saga is over, the contract negotiations should keep things hopping for a couple more days at least.

Posted by: mac_1103 | January 29, 2008 at 03:33 PM

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Post  RedMagma on Tue Jan 29, 2008 2:41 pm

I Mets Fans are doing this sh*t by sending emails to the press like Olney and USA Today Bob Nighthengale so they could get Johan thinking The Mets had the best offer.

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Re: "I couldn't have taken steroids, beca

Post  RedMagma on Tue Jan 29, 2008 2:47 pm

http://twinsrumors.com/


Nightengale: Twins Were Scrambling

January 29, 2008 3:36 pm // Be the first to comment

According to an interview on KFAN w/ Chad Hartman with Bob Nightengale:

* Twins managment were left scrambling at the end.
* Yankees were no longer offering Hughes.
* A July trade would not have brought more players.
* Twins are getting ready for 2010.
* Twins payroll now lowest in AL Central



According to USA Today:

“The New York Mets have agreed to a trade for two-time Cy Young Award winner Johan Santana, giving up four prospects to acquire the left-handed ace of the Minnesota Twins, according to two high-ranking Twins officials with knowledge of the talks and a person close to Santana.

The deal is pending the Mets and Santana reaching agreement on a six- or seven-year contract extension and that Santana passes a physical; they have been granted a 48 to-72-hour window to do so. Santana has a no-trade clause that he will waive if agreement is reached on a contract extension.

The Mets paid a high price in prospects to land Santana, agreeing to send the Twins outfielder Carlos Gomez and pitchers Phil Humber, Deolis Guerra and Kevin Mulvey.”

If this is true, it’s INCREDIBLY disappointing that Martinez was not included. The Twins should have either re-signed him or done one of the deals in December.

More to come….

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Re: "I couldn't have taken steroids, beca

Post  RedMagma on Tue Jan 29, 2008 2:50 pm

I guaranteed NY Yankees will not make the playoffs next year. Who's the Yankees Ace? Wang and Pettite? Are you kidding me Michael? Did you watch Wang's perfomance last year in the playoffs? The Yankees are relying on young kids? With The Distraction put on Pettite and He's name was put on Mitchell Report.






The Yankees can afford Santana because $60+ million of next year payroll are coming off the books. Mussina,Giambi,Pavano,Farnswort
h. The Yankees will have a New Stadium like NY Mets. The Yankees needs an ace after Wang pitching poorly in the playoffs against Indians. The Redsox doesn't need Santana because They're already have Beckett. Mets have a Pedro. Do The Yankees have an Ace in their rotation? The Mets rotation would look like this if they add Santana. Pedro,Johan, and O.Perez. If NY Mets trade for Johan after The Yankees who did struggle hitting Odalis Perez and Pedro coming back. I think Mets will have a better rotation than The Yankees. This is why Yankees should fire Brian Cashman. Brian is the same Gm who traded for Randy Johnson and signed Roger Clemens.Also, He sign Carl Pavano to a contract and trade for Javier Vazquez, Kevin Brown. Now He's scared not make a deal and trade for Johan aka Best pitcher in baseball? That's why Yankees will not win W.s anytime soon as Cashman and his stupid decisions with starting pitching.. Trade for Johan now... I'm sick Phil Stinkin and overrated Hughes. I think Yankees should make this deal after losing to Dice-K to the Redsox last year instead Cashman signed Igawa.

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Re: "I couldn't have taken steroids, beca

Post  RedMagma on Tue Jan 29, 2008 2:50 pm

I think Mets Fans are doing this sh*t by sending emails to the press like Olney and USA Today Bob Nighthengale so they could get Johan thinking The Mets had the best offer.

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Re: "I couldn't have taken steroids, beca

Post  RedMagma on Tue Jan 29, 2008 2:51 pm

Somebody put a good comment on here a few days back, saying that if a trade occurs, and the fans from both sides have a general feeling of uneasiness, and that they might have given up too much, then its a good trade for both teams.

Well, I can tell the MN fan base thinks we may have gotten hosed..

and on metsblog.com, their fans are having orgasms..

WE GOT JACKED

Also, when this exact deal was rumored of being offered by the mets about 3 weeks ago, there was a definitive agreement on this message board that it was the 3rd best offer on the table behind the bosox and yanks offers..

way to go bill smith, you totally overplayed your han

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