Mets agree to Santana deal, pending extension agreement

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Mets agree to Santana deal, pending extension agreement

Post  RedMagma on Tue Jan 29, 2008 3:03 pm

Mets agree to Santana deal, pending extension agreement



http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3220894

The Mets have agreed to a trade with the Minnesota Twins to acquire Johan Santana for four prospects, pending the left-hander working out an extension with New York.

The Mets have been granted a 48-to-72 hour window to work out a new contract with Santana.

If New York can work out a contract agreement with Minnesota, the Mets will send outfielder Carlos Gomez and pitchers Phil Humber, Deolis Guerra and Kevin Mulvey to the Twins.

The trade agreement was first reported by USA Today on its Web site.

"Right now, the Twins have no comment," the Twins' head of communications, Mike Herman told 1050 ESPN New York's Andrew Marchand. Mets vice president of media relations Jay Horwitz also had no comment.

Santana, who completely controls his fate because of the full no-trade clause he possesses, asked the Twins to make a decision, which is why Minnesota imposed a Tuesday deadline for offers from the interested teams.

The Red Sox also made offers, while the Yankees appeared to be out of the Santana talks altogether before the Twins accepted the Mets' offer.

The agent for Santana, Peter Greenberg, would not comment on whether he has been told the Mets have worked out a trade for his client, or about Santana's request for resolution.

It is not known if Santana explicitly informed the Twins that he would invoke his no-trade clause and then file for free agency after the 2008 season, but that has always been his right. It appears the Twins have taken his request seriously.

Among the three suitors for Santana, the Mets have the strongest need for a frontline starter, as well as the greatest willingness to pay him the enormous extension he will demand in order to waive his no-trade clause. It is expected that Santana's request will be for a deal in the range of six years for $150 million.

The Twins extended a four-year, $80 million offer to Santana, well beyond the $13.25 million he is scheduled to make in 2008.

ESPN's Peter Gammons and ESPN The Magazine's Buster Olney contributed to this report

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Re: Mets agree to Santana deal, pending extension agreement

Post  RedMagma on Tue Jan 29, 2008 3:09 pm

Twins, Mets agree on Santana deal
Tuesday, January 29th, 2008

http://nc.startribune.com/blogs/neal/



Multiple major league sources familiar with negotiations are confirming that the Twins and New York Mets have agreed to trade of two-time Cy Young Award winner Johan Santana for four prospects.

The deal is pending physicals and a contract extension for Santana that’s expected to be for at least six years and more than $20 million a season.

In return for Santana, the Twins will receive four of the Mets best prospects - outfielder Carlos Gomez and righthanders Phillip Humber, Kevin Mulvey and Deolis Guerra.

The Twins wanted outfield prospect Fernando Martinez in the deal but the Mets balked at gutting their farm system of top prospects.

The deal comes after it was learned on Tuesday that Santana and his agent, Peter Greenberg, had begun to apply pressure to the Twins to get something done. There were indications, for instance, that Red Sox were told on Friday that it was time to bring their best offer to the table.

The Red Sox offered packages centering around lefthander Jon Lester and another centering around outfielder Jacoby Ellsbury. Infielder Jed Lowrie was believed to be attached to both deals, but it was learned on Tuesday that, in recent weeks, the Twins and Red Sox had changed some of the names in the back end of the deal.


dan at work says:

January 29th, 2008 at 4:07 pm

booo

Dazzle says:

January 29th, 2008 at 4:08 pm

Way to give up Santana for 1/10 of his value!

Carlos Gomez = Christian Guzman!

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Re: Mets agree to Santana deal, pending extension agreement

Post  RedMagma on Tue Jan 29, 2008 3:10 pm

I think Mets Fans are doing this sh*t by sending emails to the press like Olney and USA Today Bob Nighthengale so they could get Johan thinking The Mets had the best offer.

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Re: Mets agree to Santana deal, pending extension agreement

Post  RedMagma on Tue Jan 29, 2008 3:11 pm

Fire Bill Smith, No Fernando Martinez from Mets? Are you kidding me?

I think Mets Fans are doing this sh*t by sending emails to the press like Olney and USA Today Bob Nighthengale so they could get Johan thinking The Mets had the best offer.

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Re: Mets agree to Santana deal, pending extension agreement

Post  RedMagma on Tue Jan 29, 2008 3:12 pm

January 29th, 2008 at 3:47 pm

HOLY CRAP! Thank you Mr. Smith. You are so afraid of getting fleeced by the Yanks and Sox you gave us the best pitcher in baseball for an “A” ball pitcher with a 4.10 era, two #4s, and a .270 hitter who’s years away from the majors (in any real organization, we didn’t even have to give up F-Mart!! Heck we didn’t even have to give up Ryan Church!! (I thought we were dead when I saw Lester and Ellsbury still on the table) ‘Tis good to deal with a rookie GM

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Re: Mets agree to Santana deal, pending extension agreement

Post  RedMagma on Tue Jan 29, 2008 3:12 pm

I agree this is a NO win situation

Fans will argue either way.

I am glad its hopefully over.

This team is setting itself up to win in the new stadium. Twins ALWAYS make solid trades.

Sure hughes would have been nice. But other then him, it wasn’t much of an offer.
Sox offer looks dang good right now.
But let it play out.

My biggest Disappointment in this trade is I wish the club would have gotten back a infield prospect.

but hey, the oldest players in our lineup are Lamb/Everett

its a good solid young lineup
Growing pains? you bet.. gomez will be streaky. again.
he is 22!

If your the twins,
you still have a Franchise Catcher, Franchise 1st Baseman,
Hopefully Liriano becomes a Franchise Pitcher
Gomez a Franchise CF?
Young a Franchise LF?
talent talent talent!

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Re: Mets agree to Santana deal, pending extension agreement

Post  RedMagma on Tue Jan 29, 2008 3:13 pm

This is just insane. Bill Smith, David St. Peter and Carl Pohlad must have had overnight lobotomies. Can’t wait to hear how they spin this deal. Minnesota Twins….we are perpetual rebuilders…but have new stadium!!! Makes the Hershel Walker trade look decent.

i would rather take less from the mets than have him go to the sox or yanks.
it will be good to have it over so we can move on to complaining about how bad we got screwed.

If this deal goes through, the Twins should fire Bill Smith.

Wait, wait, wait for it. Oh yeah, its the same as it ever was.

You have the prize and we dictated the deal. I love it…love it, love it, love it.

Twin negotiation tactics = “Tell us your best deal.”

ha ha ha ha ha…that doesnt even work in Fantasy Baseball.


This is a horrible deal, blah, blah, blah.

Remember when AJ for Nathan, Liriano and Boof was a horrible deal?

No, because I couldn’t believe we got Nathan=AJP, Bonser, and a great, great, young prospect. Now we’re just depending on Guerra=Liriano, crossing our fingers for a very, incredibly likely scenario.

A lot of us knew Nathan was a stud, Bonser was an okay prospect (like Mulvey/Humber), and Liriano was an absolute stud prospect who had been injured that year.

I’m not too upset, either. Santana was a goner unless he had taken the 4/80 or 5/100 we offered. As a result, we would have had one year with him…a year where we are VERY likely not to win the AL central, with strong Detroit and Cleveland teams. We’re basically giving up 30-some starts of Santana for:

Carlos Gomez - very young CF with huge upside…some say faster than Jose Reyes (though not as good plate discipline, or probably as good a hitter)

Mulvey & Humber - Fairly promising young starters

Deolis Guerra - Very young (the guy was freakin’ born in 1989) pitcher with HUGE upside.

I, for one, agree with Iowa Twin, and am okay with the trade

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Re: Mets agree to Santana deal, pending extension agreement

Post  RedMagma on Tue Jan 29, 2008 3:15 pm

January 29th, 2008 at 4:06 pm

If the reported trade of Santana (for Gomez, Humber, Guerra, and Mulvey) is true, this will have a good chance of being the most devastating move by a Minnesota sports team since the Herschel Walker trade.

There is no way to spin the result as anything other than a complete failure of the whole organization from ownership to management.

The one thing I’ll agree with here is that the Twins must turn around and deal one or two of these AAA+ pitchers to get either a MLB ready hitter or someone close…

Guerra has 1 plus pitch. His changeup. His fastball sits at 90. Tops out at 92-93. His curve is poor. He has upside but lets be realistic. He is 19. He does have good command of his fastball.

I just do not think he is anything special. We will know in 3-4 years. Unless he fails miserably beforehand.

I just do not think the twins got enough high ceiling talent back.

My figures cone from scout.com. Theur latest scouting report as of Jan 08.

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Re: Mets agree to Santana deal, pending extension agreement

Post  RedMagma on Tue Jan 29, 2008 3:17 pm

The Mets steal Johan Santana


http://www.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/2008-01-29-twins-mets-santana_N.htm

Bill Smith should be treated like this horse in Minnesota.

The deal is pending the Mets and Santana reaching agreement on a six- or seven-year contract extension and that Santana passes a physical; they have been granted a 48 to-72-hour window to do so. Santana has a no-trade clause that he will waive if agreement is reached on a contract extension.

The Mets paid a high price in prospects to land Santana, agreeing to send the Twins outfielder Carlos Gomez and pitchers Phil Humber, Deolis Guerra and Kevin Mulvey.


Mr.Smith , No Fernando Martinez for best pitcher in baseball? I hope you got fired for this. I'm dissapointed as Twins Fan.

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Re: Mets agree to Santana deal, pending extension agreement

Post  RedMagma on Tue Jan 29, 2008 3:20 pm

If this deal goes through, the Twins should fire Bill Smith.

Wait, wait, wait for it. Oh yeah, its the same as it ever was.

You have the prize and we dictated the deal. I love it…love it, love it, love it.

Twin negotiation tactics = “Tell us your best deal.”

ha ha ha ha ha…that doesnt even work in Fantasy Baseball

RealityCheck says:

January 29th, 2008 at 4:09 pm

This is just insane. Bill Smith, David St. Peter and Carl Pohlad must have had overnight lobotomies. Can’t wait to hear how they spin this deal. Minnesota Twins….we are perpetual rebuilders…but have new stadium!!! Makes the Hershel Walker trade look decent.


i would rather take less from the mets than have him go to the sox or yanks.
it will be good to have it over so we can move on to complaining about how bad we got screwed.

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Re: Mets agree to Santana deal, pending extension agreement

Post  RedMagma on Tue Jan 29, 2008 3:22 pm

This whole situation worked out great IMO for several reasons...

1. It's over.

2. The afore-beaten-into-the-ground payroll flexibility issue

3. The best pitcher in baseball is in the NL now.

4. We get to watch homegrown talent develop

5. The most important reason...For the first time since I can remember the Sox-Yanks rivalry heads into new territory. If the big name prospects end up sticking with the team the AL East boils down to a battle of farm systems/player development/scouting. I realize that all of this hinges on Baby Huey Steinbrenner listening to his "baseball people." It is possible though isn't it? From a baseball standpoint it becomes the two marquee teams running at optimum potential (for the near future anyway). I'm excited about a potential Buchholz vs. Chamberlain, Lester vs. Hughes, Beckett, vs. Wang weekend series.
6. better for baseball than JS in Bos or with the NYY. The ideal would be him staying in Min. but that wasn't going to happen.


QUOTE(JimD @ Jan 29 2008, 05:11 PM) *
I don't see how any MFY fans can be happy about this. Flip it around - if the Yankees were the ones who just rode Josh Beckett's golden arm to a world championship and the Sox had a chance to land an ace like Santana, and then failed to do so because they fell in love with Jon Lester, I'd be more than a little pissed right now.

This has the potential to backfire of the Yankees in truly spectacular fashion. If Santana continues his HoF brilliance in Flushing and the pinstriped kiddies flame out, Cashman and the MFY front office are going to be crucified for years to come.


If Johan has a Cy Young Award season, he will fill the headlines on the front and back pages of all the papers in NY. Cashman will be under the Steinbrenner family microscope and it might equate to plenty of tension in their front office, especially when you include the managerial and coaching changes.

I can only assume that all Red Sox deals were smoke to keep the Yankees away. If this was in fact what they were, Bravo..well done. Looking at the players the Mets got I think Ellsbury/Lester/Lowrie/and Masterson are all better than any player the Mets got..I know Gomez has a high ceiling but please..looking at his Minor league stats I think he may be a bit of a reach/project with great raw tools. Humber has the stuff but he was absolutely pitiful last year in a watered down N.L.

I wonder what the average bid will be on Johan in NL Only Auction Keepers...I am ready to get silly.

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Re: Mets agree to Santana deal, pending extension agreement

Post  RedMagma on Tue Jan 29, 2008 3:24 pm

Heyman confirms the deal for Johan

Mets, Twins agree to Santana trade
Extension will seal deal for two-time Cy Young winner

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/baseball/mlb/01/29/Santana.traded/index.html


The Mets and Twins are in agreement on a trade to send star pitcher Johan Santana to New York, SI.com has confirmed

The Mets will now have a 72-hour window to try to negotiate a long-term deal with Santana, the two-time Cy Young winner who has a full no-trade clause and thus veto power over trades. People familiar with the Mets thinking say they'd like to keep it to a five-year contract while Santana is believed to be seeking a deal for six or seven years. However, there appears to be optimism that something can be done.


Assuming the Mets can reach an agreement with Santana, the Twins will receive four prospects in return -- are outfielder Carlos Gomez and pitchers Kevin Mulvey, Deolis Guerra and Phil Humber, according to a report on USAToday.com. That has been the offer the Mets made weeks ago. The Twins had been pressing the Mets to include a second top outfield prospect, Fernando Martinez, but the Mets held the line. The teams also discussed possibly substituting reliever Jorge Sosa for Humber in recent days.

"That's great for the Mets,'' one competing executive said. "The Twins got some upside guys. It's a scout's deal. The scouts are projecting on those guys.''

Twins scout Joe McIlvaine is a former Mets executive who has closely followed his former team. While the Twins originally wanted shortstop Jose Reyes in the deal, one person familiar with Minnesota's thinking said "McIlvaine was high on the Mets prospects.''

Gomez is viewed as a potential star who is unproven as a hitter. Guerra is another who could be a star but he projects to pitch at Double-A next year. Mulvey and Humber could reach the majors this year but are seen as middle-of-the-rotation types.

It has been believed that Santana had no objection to being traded to New York, so the only potential holdup could be over dollars. Santana, who rejected an $80-million, four-year proposal from the Twins, is believed to be seeking a six- or seven-year contract for more than $20 million per year. However, the Mets have an excellent relationship with Santana's agents, Peter and Ed Greenberg.

The Twins also weighed offers from the Boston Red Sox, who had proposed two months ago a deal to send pitcher Jon Lester, outfielder Coco Crisp, pitching prospect Justin Masterson and infield prospect Jed Lowrie for Santana, and another that included outfielder Jacoby Ellsbury but not Lester.

The Twins had stopped talking to the Yankees after they pulled top pitching prospect Phil Hughes off the table. Yankees general manager Brian Cashman did not want to surrender Hughes and also pay the dollars it would take to sign Santana.

Details of the trade were first reported by USA Today.


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Re: Mets agree to Santana deal, pending extension agreement

Post  RedMagma on Tue Jan 29, 2008 3:31 pm

QUOTE(MoRivera @ Jan 29 2008, 04:30 PM) *
We could have gotten this done with Kennedy, then


According to months of reports, no we couldn't of. The Twins didn't want a package with Kennedy as a headliner. They wanted a high end positional prospect.

But either way

Hughes/Cabrera/Horne

and

Lester/Masterson/Lowrie/Crisp

Poop all over what they got from the Mets.

Twins fans have got to be livid.




Mulvey and Humber are at best number 3 starters. Guerra is too young right now and who knows how he will turn out in the future. He might be a bust. Gomez doesn't seem like anything special either. Bill Smith is a dumbass


This is seriously pathetic. Compare that to what the Twins were demanding from the Yankees, every fucking team does it and I'm sick of it. These teams like the Red Sox and other faggot clubs get superstars for garbage, but the Yanks have to dish out the A+ prospects.

true. Very true.

Something like Hughes, Melky, Horne, and Cano "wasn't enough"

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Re: Mets agree to Santana deal, pending extension agreement

Post  RedMagma on Tue Jan 29, 2008 3:35 pm

Twins were demanding more from the Yankees not Mets and Redsox. I'm sick of s**

what do you want us to do? Snails could get deals done faster than the Twins


Uh all I was saying was when there's nobody bidding against you and the seller is near desperate, you will find that the price falls. With 3 teams vieing for Santana, the Twins could bounce offers off each team trying to get a better deal that would end up as a steal for them. With only 1 bidder, you lose almost all negotiating power.



I think this is more of a case of Bill Smith overestimating the market for Johan, rather than an attempt to screw the Yankees. He wanted A+ propects from the BoSox too, not just the Yankees.

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Re: Mets agree to Santana deal, pending extension agreement

Post  RedMagma on Tue Jan 29, 2008 3:38 pm

Santana to Mets, time for the Yanks to be accountable


The high price the Mets paid for the best lefthander in baseball doesn't include their best outfield prospect, three young pitchers including an 18 year old and a young speedy outfielder (Gomez) who strikes out alot with little power. I think it's safe to say at least two of the Mets pitching prospects will not become top of the rotation type major league starters. Yankee fans can now only hope Phil Hughes turns into a very good major league pitcher VERY SOON. If not, Cashman should be fired. It would also be nice if Melky finds a way to hit more than 8 homers or bat higher than .278. if he's going to be the Yankees regular centerfielder.


actually, cashman should not be fired. Quite obvioulsy the price of Hughes was asking way too much based on this mets deal.

Its the twins GM who should be fired for notaking the yanks or sox deal when he had a chance.

Im just shocked the yanks or sox couldnt find a way to top this.....


He waited and waited and waited because he wanted to be sure his first big move was a good one. Instead the Yanks backed off, the Red Sox pulled Lester off the table and he ends up with a weak offer from the Mets......works for me :-D

Either way Brian Cashman did a great job handling this. Santana didn't go to the Red Sox, he didn't have to give up the farm for 1 player. If he went to the Red Sox, then maybe your right, but him being in the Mets really doesn't effect us as much as the Red Sox. I am happy that Phil Hughes will remain a NYY for at least now.

Do you realize that Melky Cabrera is a year younger than Jacoby Ellsbury? He'll play the bulk of this season at 24 years old. I think it's pretty dumb to be critical of a player for not hitting for average (like that stat actually matters anymore) and especially homeruns as he still has time to develop a little more power. Besides, at least the Yankees only pay him a small contract for similar numbers to what Coco Crisp can provide (OPS is better over the last two years, speed less, OF defense is comparable-Crisp has better routes to the ball/speed, Cabrera has a much better arm). But again, he's 24. At 24 years of age, Bernie Williams had 5 HR in 260 AB for the Yankees. And what if Hughes gives the Yankees ten good years of 4.00 ERA pitching with decent K/9 type stats and Santana requires surgery, effectively ending his career. Do you still fire Cashman? Santana is the best pitcher in baseball, but I don't think he's worth two or more of the best young talents in the system to get him while giving up huge money to sign him to an extension. So I think the Yankees are accountable for their actions. I think they made the right decision, even if you and your super-knowledge base disapproves.


LMAO! How many more ways can this be said. The Twins were offered way more from the Sox and Yanks. The Twins got basically nothing. They were better off just keeping Santana until he went FA! What a twin fleecing. Good job Omar!!

Actually Cashman shoulb be applauded for not giving up Hughes, Kennedy, Caberra and Horne/Marquez for Santana. The Twins over played their cards and got burnt big time. The package of Kennedy, Caberra and Horne is a lot better than the 3 back of the rotation and decent not great OF prospect that they got.

Well since its damn obvious that MN wasn't going to trade him to us for the equivolent of the mets deal, this is the best possible scenario. Santana is out of the AL, he's not on Boston and we keep our prospects.

They didn't even give up Heilman, Martinez or Pelfrey. Geez

I'm glad they actually stuck to their word

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Re: Mets agree to Santana deal, pending extension agreement

Post  RedMagma on Tue Jan 29, 2008 3:40 pm

I can only assume that all Red Sox deals were smoke to keep the Yankees away. If this was in fact what they were, Bravo..well done. Looking at the players the Mets got I think Ellsbury/Lester/Lowrie/and Masterson are all better than any player the Mets got..I know Gomez has a high ceiling but please..looking at his Minor league stats I think he may be a bit of a reach/project with great raw tools. Humber has the stuff but he was absolutely pitiful last year in a watered down N.L.

I wonder what the average bid will be on Johan in NL Only Auction Keepers...I am ready to get silly.

Crisp = Gomez in net present value, but some $ savings I guess.
Lester >> Guerra
Masterson > Mulvey
Lowrie > Humber


A truly dreadful deal that should cost someone their job at some point. Three pitchers with no real likely chance of being in the rotation and above average for at least 3 years and a toolsy CF that's two years away. Gomez will need to turn into Alex Rios with CF defense and Guerra will need to be a #2 starter for this to work. A little better than just draft picks, but very surprised on this.


I hope this deal makes some contribution toward all the pathetically cheap, pathetically disinterested National League teams getting their asses in gear and trying to build championship caliber teams not just NL Central caliber teams or NL West Caliber teams.

I cannot help but think that Smith desperately wanted to keep Johan out of A.L. This deal seriously wreaks. Though I had wet dreams of a Beckett/Santana duo atop the Sox rotation, I am relieved he will be in the N.L.

If the Mets don't win the N.L. this year I will be shocked.

Now let's see if we can't pry Salty from Texas with the spects we were going to deal for Johan.

QUOTE(TomRicardo @ Jan 29 2008, 04:37 PM) *
Any team that is excited about not landing the best pitcher in baseball with a package comparable to the Mets were offering is either poor or stupid. The fact is Bill Smith blew the whole deal and really only could take the Mets crappy package of rushed players in order to save face. If anything if I were Theo and Cashman I would, in the future, be hesitant to deal with Smith who ended up having to take a lesser package and showed a penchant for wasting everyone's time. No doubt the Nathan trade this summer will be even more of a disaster.



I think the NYYs should be pleased and the RS even more so. They demonstrated that they won't pay a sky high price in prospects + dollars to avert a first rate, potentially season altering player from being traded to the other. The Mets benefit short term, but who cares (other than Cashman, maybe, if his young pitching doesn't prove out and Johan is a star in NY -- watch out for Hank)? A club itching to trade a similarly positioned player down the road won't be pointing to this deal as any sort of benchmark. If anything, this may incentivize teams such as the Twins to unload players such as Santana before their walk year. Pretty shrewd consciously parallel behavior, which in the absence of an agreement is perfectly legal

Well said.

Maybe Cash still has some say in what goes on.

Either way, a win-win for the Sox / Yanks. Santana is not on the other team, and maybe a message was sent that bidding through the roof to block a player isn't going to happen any more.

If the rumors were true over the NYY and RS offers, this is some nice poetic justice. The Twins kept asking for more prospects and more prospects from all 3 teams, and in the end this stinginess cost them their earlier offers. The asking price was high enough to alienate some suitors and the Twins found themselves negotiating with a team that they had not lost face with.

This could also be construed as a lesson in timing. Eventually the glean and excitement over having JOHAN SANTANA wore off and all 3 teams realized the price was too high when he's a year from free agency.

Curious to see how the Star Tribune writes this up when they've had time to think about it.


In all, I think the F.O. should be commended. The package we were going to give up for Santana could not really have been accurately reported if this is the package that the Twins took. Almost all of our guys were closer to MLB ready, and most of them (Lester, Ellsbury, Lowrie) had higher upsides that could fit what the Twins were looking to accomplish (SS, CF (unless Young's there), SP replacement for Santana). If that was indeed our package, then there isn't much that can be done other than vastly overpay if this is what the Twins took over our deal. It doesn't really make sense. Can't fault our F.O. for the perceived incompetence of the Twins' staff, but I'm willing to give their scouting dept. the benefit of the doubt for now. This is, after all, the team that won the central for a while with a tiny payroll based solely on homegrown talent.

Fake edit: and here's my post from the thread in MLB discussion:

I have a very hard time thinking that the Mets fleeced the Twins. The Twins and Terry Ryan (who's still in the organization), along with the current GM Smith, have been among the best evaluators of pure talent in the game for the past decade, so I don't think they'd trade the best pitcher in the world for 4 pieces of drek. Gomez has tools but is not polished, not to mention being rushed by the Mets. With their current OF pretty much set outside of a CF (unless you call Delmon Young a CF), I can see the Twins starting him in AA and allowing him to continue on a normal development path. Pelfrey adds another arm to the Twins' wealth of pitching prospects, while Guerra and Mulvey both have decent ceilings. I still think the Sox' package was better, but for the Twins' purposes this may end up being the right deal.

This is assuming the Sox' package was as reported, which I also have a hard time believing if this is the deal the Twins accepted. The more I think about it, the less I like this deal for the Twins. For the next few years I feel like I have to give Ryan/Smith the benefit of the doubt if only because of their track record. If none of these players (or one, even) comes to fruition as a major leaguer, some heads will roll in the Twin Cities.

The only thing more pathetic than what the Twins got for the guy would be the Mets not working out a LT deal with Johann and the deal falling through.

I strongly believe the Twins could have gotten at least a similar package for him at the trading deadline, maybe better if the season played out the right way. I guess they avoid paying 1/2 of this year's salary, but that seems penny wise, pound foolish.

And the Crisp/Lester/Masterson/Lowrie offer, if legit, blows the Mets one away. So they took less to avoid facing Johann maybe twice a year, and in the playoffs, if they made the playoffs (a pretty big if the way things are going).

MN fans can't be happy with this

How do the Twins sell this to their fans?

It's clear now that they are not going for it in 2008, and probably not in 2009-2010 based on the youth of the return.

If you're Morneau, do you want to stay now?

Terrible day to be a Twins fan. Smith came back with nothing for 2008... and if his justification is going to be 'at least we got him out of the AL' he should be fired immediately.

He doesn't have much choice now.

The Twins sell this as retooling for the opening of the new ballpark, given that they made (according to reports) a 5/100 offer and it was rejected. They can point to that and say they legitimately tried and sought to deal him, before losing him to free agency. The Morneau and Cuddyear deals help ease the pain


I think this is the best possible outcome:

* Wouldn't want him to be on the Yankees, for all the obvious reasons.
* Frankly, I was not happy about the length of contract needed to get Santana, and the youth to be given up in the process.
* 2-3 years down the road, worries about injury/decline.
* He's out of the American League totally.

I think the Twins waited way too long to pull the trigger on this and this is fairly close to their worst case scenario.

Would have been an awesome rotation for the Sox going into 2008, with Santana but not to be

I don't see how any MFY fans can be happy about this. Flip it around - if the Yankees were the ones who just rode Josh Beckett's golden arm to a world championship and the Sox had a chance to land an ace like Santana, and then failed to do so because they fell in love with Jon Lester, I'd be more than a little pissed right now.

This has the potential to backfire of the Yankees in truly spectacular fashion. If Santana continues his HoF brilliance in Flushing and the pinstriped kiddies flame out, Cashman and the MFY front office are going to be crucified for years to come

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Re: Mets agree to Santana deal, pending extension agreement

Post  RedMagma on Tue Jan 29, 2008 3:44 pm

QUOTE(PedroSpecialK @ Jan 29 2008, 05:02 PM) *
I have a very hard time thinking that the Mets fleeced the Twins. The Twins and Terry Ryan (who's still in the organization), along with the current GM Smith, have been among the best evaluators of pure talent in the game for the past decade, so I don't think they'd trade the best pitcher in the world for 4 pieces of drek. Gomez has tools but is not polished, not to mention being rushed by the Mets. With their current OF pretty much set outside of a CF (unless you call Delmon Young a CF), I can see the Twins starting him in AA and allowing him to continue on a normal development path. Pelfrey adds another arm to the Twins' wealth of pitching prospects, while Guerra and Mulvey both have decent ceilings. I still think the Sox' package was better, but for the Twins' purposes this may end up being the right deal.


There isn't a chance in hell this trade would have gone down in Terry Ryan's reign. The Twins still need a middle infielder and a CF and took a bunch of projects. Compare this to Haren, Cabrera/Willis, and what Angelos is about to reject for Bedard. Smith absolutely got fleeced and has been been outwitted by Minaya. If I was a Minnesota fan, I would be rioting if I wasn't so tired from McHale doing the same kind of crap.


QUOTE(Paul M @ Jan 29 2008, 04:46 PM) *
Crisp = Gomez in net present value, but some $ savings I guess.
Lester >> Guerra
Masterson > Mulvey
Lowrie > Humber
A truly dreadful deal that should cost someone their job at some point. Three pitchers with no real likely chance of being in the rotation and above average for at least 3 years and a toolsy CF that's two years away. Gomez will need to turn into Alex Rios with CF defense and Guerra will need to be a #2 starter for this to work. A little better than just draft picks, but very surprised on this.


But also the additional cost of punting this year by losing 1 year of Santana at his current salary on a potentially contending team that has Liriano, an excellent bullpen with a stud closer, and some excellent position players (mixed in with some lousy ones).


Arguably the Twins got a better package for trading Matt Garza than they did for traidng Johan.

This whole situation worked out great IMO for several reasons...

1. It's over.

2. The afore-beaten-into-the-ground payroll flexibility issue

3. The best pitcher in baseball is in the NL now.

4. We get to watch homegrown talent develop

5. The most important reason...For the first time since I can remember the Sox-Yanks rivalry heads into new territory. If the big name prospects end up sticking with the team the AL East boils down to a battle of farm systems/player development/scouting. I realize that all of this hinges on Baby Huey Steinbrenner listening to his "baseball people." It is possible though isn't it? From a baseball standpoint it becomes the two marquee teams running at optimum potential (for the near future anyway). I'm excited about a potential Buchholz vs. Chamberlain, Lester vs. Hughes, Beckett, vs. Wang weekend series.
6. better for baseball than JS in Bos or with the NYY. The ideal would be him staying in Min. but that wasn't going to happen.


QUOTE(JimD @ Jan 29 2008, 05:11 PM) *
I don't see how any MFY fans can be happy about this. Flip it around - if the Yankees were the ones who just rode Josh Beckett's golden arm to a world championship and the Sox had a chance to land an ace like Santana, and then failed to do so because they fell in love with Jon Lester, I'd be more than a little pissed right now.

This has the potential to backfire of the Yankees in truly spectacular fashion. If Santana continues his HoF brilliance in Flushing and the pinstriped kiddies flame out, Cashman and the MFY front office are going to be crucified for years to come.


If Johan has a Cy Young Award season, he will fill the headlines on the front and back pages of all the papers in NY. Cashman will be under the Steinbrenner family 'Mad Scientist' microscope and it might equate to plenty of tension in their front office, especially when you include the managerial and coaching changes.









Wonderful. The Braves have 3rd place practically locked up in the NL East for the foreseeable future. And,.from now on I have a reason to be extra annoyed when I watch Future HOFer Jacoby Ellsbury put up staggering home run totals nearing the double digits or Jon Lester take every count to 3-2 on his way to a bunch of 5-inning, 108 pitch outings. That said, I am glad he (Santana) isn't on the Yankees. And now I can safely go back to hoping his arm falls off

That's true, but those are the tough decisions a GM is paid to make. Those same fans, with hindsight, have bitched about the $200 MM flushed over the years on starters who did not work out. I agree that the RS are better positioned than the Yanks because we seem to be an arm up and are coming off a WS win. But I can't say that the judgment made in this case, presumably heavily influnced by Cashman, was the wrong one.

From the Mets' standpoint, it's much easier. They are coming off an historic collapse, are second fiddle in the City, have obvious SP deficiencies in a weak League which could get them over the hump if addressed, and they are moving into new digs soon. If they cannot sign Santana to an extension, that would be a brutal failure.

Why would one compare the return on Santana vs. the return on a guy like Haren or Bedard? The situations are vastly different; Santana had a no-trade clause and was demanding a record setting extension. It severely limits the market and results in a smaller than expected return. Whereas with a guy like Haren, every team can afford his salary and he doesn't have the power to reject a deal.

(Aside from being a Sox or Yankee fan, it's probably good for baseball that a guy like this goes to a team like the Mets).

The market for Santana included two teams with farm systems in the top 10 and the Mets have some good talent as well. Of course, the Twins in their infinite wisdom bypassed the only potential impact bat the Mets had in Fernando Martinez. I understand Santana only had one year left, but he was going to sign an extension so for the Twins to do this deal without Martinez is hard to fathom. Gomez profiles better in CF, but the Twins had a chance to get Phil Hughes and Austin Jackson or Ellsbury and Lowrie/Masterson. I actually feel bad for Twins fans who have been crapped on by ownership and MLB at times over the last 8 years. The Twins traded the best pitcher in baseball, in his prime, and might not even get anything to show for it for several years. I imagine they must think Gomez can be a gold-glove CF and that Guerra will be a #2. Just seems kind of risky to me.

I also can't see any validity to the argument that this trade for the Twins was taken because they were willing to take less to get him out of the AL. That would be the craziest reasoning ever.

It's not like the Twins are going to overcome the Tigers and the Indians to win the division or wild card, and therefore would worry about seeing Santana in the playoffs. Other than that, if he goes out of division in the AL, they see him at most twice next year. Beyond that, who can even guarantee where Santana will be?

Maybe the Twins were just afraid to open spring training against him.

Anyway, it's probably for the best if he's going to the Mets. Nothing wrong with a more interesting NL East race.

Other than the really always cheerful slating of talented and young players and the even more charming cheerign for the injury of a quality player excellent comment.

It's all very odd, you'd really think the Yanks and Sox could easily have trumped this. The Sox didn't NEED Santana but to beat this deal you didn't need to. I think the flexability is great but they either need to really pan out or someone else as good as Santana needs to come available. The Yanks have much less excuse, the MEts are again favourites in the NL and you can rest assured if the kids struggle and Santana gets a Cy Young there will be tears from Hank and Cashman.

I'd rather have made the move for Santana than not but as he's gone to the NL that's fine. I'm a little surprised that the Sox let this distrupt poential other moves, and maybe they have some other things going on which is why they let this slide to the NL for cheap. Only prepared to break them for a Yankee beater.

I have to agree with the thoughts that the Twins overplayed a weak hand and got a lot less than the best offers around. They should ahve taken the best Yank or Sox offers over this any day, and they blew it.
The good news for them is they used the delay to sign their other vulnerable players. This is a crappy return though


Last edited by on Tue Jan 29, 2008 3:46 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Mets agree to Santana deal, pending extension agreement

Post  RedMagma on Tue Jan 29, 2008 3:45 pm

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QUOTE(JimD @ Jan 29 2008, 07:11 PM) *
I don't see how any MFY fans can be happy about this. Flip it around - if the Yankees were the ones who just rode Josh Beckett's golden arm to a world championship and the Sox had a chance to land an ace like Santana, and then failed to do so because they fell in love with Jon Lester, I'd be more than a little pissed right now.

This has the potential to backfire of the Yankees in truly spectacular fashion. If Santana continues his HoF brilliance in Flushing and the pinstriped kiddies flame out, Cashman and the MFY front office are going to be crucified for years to come.


I have to agree. The Yankees will very likely make the playoffs for the foreseeable future. But they've sorely lacked a true shut down ace and as such they have not won in the post season for some time. So what do they do when one - a really good one - becomes available? They balk at the price. Now in all honesty, I can't say I completely fault them, it's not as if their prospects were bums or anything, but then I read this from Hank Steinbrenner:

QUOTE
``I will be patient with the young pitchers and players. There's no question about that because I know how these players develop,'' he said. ``But as far as missing the playoffs - if we miss the playoffs by the end of this year, I don't know how patient I'll be.


Now when you intend to start three rookies in the rotation, no matter how talented they are, they're bound to have some struggles. This strategy will likely pay dividends for them long term - similar to the way the Sox handled 2006 - but then you look at some of the crap that comes out of George's fat son's mouth, this situation could turn into a true shit storm. Should be a fun time in NY this season for us Sox fans. Can't wait.




It seems pretty clear that the Twins overplayed their hand on this. I think Smith was so convinced at the outset that the Yankees and Red Sox were going to get into a mad bidding war for Santana that he became complacent. What he misread was that the Yankees and Red Sox were both inclined to keep their young talent in place...especially given the contract that Santana was going to demand.

I'm happy with this outcome. I would have loved to have Santana but the more I thought about the contract length and numbers involved, I was concerned that the future financial ramifications could have been stifling. In my opinion, both the Yankees and Red Sox handled this situation very well.

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Re: Mets agree to Santana deal, pending extension agreement

Post  RedMagma on Tue Jan 29, 2008 3:59 pm

Heyman: Yanks Out Of Santana Race

Click here to read Jon Heyman's lastest.

Tom Robson, Jason Roach, and Eric Valent have all worn #57 for the Mets. Santana would automatically become the best Metsie to ever don those digits. (Then again, he would have been the best to wear them for the Yankees too.)


They are tired of paying that luxury tax and I for one dont blame them....I read the other day that the Marlins whose payroll is going to be around 20M this year will get 70 M from MLB soursces before they ever sell a ticket, a beer or a hot dog. I would have loved to have had Santana, but the cost was prohibitive, both in talent and monies. I understand Cashman's decision and his advice to Hank. To his detriment, the fact that Johann wound up with the muttsies means he is even more on the hook for persuading Hank to pass on Santana. I don't know how true it was but I did read that with the current payroll, Santana would have cost us 40 cents on every dollar of salary he earned.

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Re: Mets agree to Santana deal, pending extension agreement

Post  RedMagma on Tue Jan 29, 2008 4:00 pm

Mets Trade For Johan Santana

Via Bob Nightengale:

The New York Mets have agreed to a trade for two-time Cy Young Award winner Johan Santana, giving up four prospects to acquire the left-handed ace of the Minnesota Twins, according to two high-ranking Twins officials with knowledge of the talks and a person close to Santana.

The deal is pending the Mets and Santana reaching agreement on a six- or seven-year contract extension and that Santana passes a physical; they have been granted a 48 to-72-hour window to do so. Santana has a no-trade clause that he will waive if agreement is reached on a contract extension.

The Mets paid a high price in prospects to land Santana, agreeing to send the Twins outfielder Carlos Gomez and pitchers Phil Humber, Deolis Guerra and Kevin Mulvey.

Give the Mets credit. They had a dire need and plugged it with one of the best in the game. They were not afraid to part with prospects. And, they're not afraid of Santana's salary demands.

Kevin Mulvey and Phil Humber should be decent big league pitchers some day. But, Deolis Guerra is a baby. Anything can happen with him. Carlos Gomez? Yes, he can run and he can field. But, will he hit in the majors? How's his attitude?

To me, this would be as if the Yankees traded Ian Kennedy, Jose Tabata, Alan Horne, and Dellin Betances for Johan Santana.

Yes, that's a steep price, when you think of it this way. And, it's a gamble.

Obviously, the Mets were willing to take that gamble - and the Yankees were not. Six years from now, or maybe sooner, we will know which team was smart to take the position (that they did) on this one





They are tired of paying that luxury tax and I for one dont blame them....I read the other day that the Marlins whose payroll is going to be around 20M this year will get 70 M from MLB soursces before they ever sell a ticket, a beer or a hot dog. I would have loved to have had Santana, but the cost was prohibitive, both in talent and monies. I understand Cashman's decision and his advice to Hank. To his detriment, the fact that Johann wound up with the muttsies means he is even more on the hook for persuading Hank to pass on Santana. I don't know how true it was but I did read that with the current payroll, Santana would have cost us 40 cents on every dollar of salary he earned.

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Re: Mets agree to Santana deal, pending extension agreement

Post  RedMagma on Tue Jan 29, 2008 4:04 pm

Either way Brian Cashman did a great job handling this. Santana didn't go to the Red Sox, he didn't have to give up the farm for 1 player. If he went to the Red Sox, then maybe your right, but him being in the Mets really doesn't effect us as much as the Red Sox. I am happy that Phil Hughes will remain a NYY for at least now.

***************
Yanks have quite a bit on that farm, and I thought the idea was to try and put a championship team on the field. Phil Hughes has had twice as many disabling injuries in half a season than Santana has had in his whole career. This team won't have a legitimate ace for the forseeable future and the only proven lefthander in the rotation, and on the whole team will be retiring in a year or two-Pettite. I'll ask a simple question: When should we reasonably expect Hughes to win 15 games?



That's an amazing skill you have there. Could you give me tonight's lottery numbers?



MN didnt want johan in the AL... so they used the sox and yanks to get the mets to give up more... but i would of thought they could of pry reyes from the mets... guess no


Gomez is viewed as a potential star who is unproven as a hitter. Guerra is another who could be a star but he projects to pitch at Double-A next year. Mulvey and Humber could reach the majors this year but are seen as middle-of-the-rotation types.

LOL !! Potential stars. Gomez has the tools but he's far from a potential star. Scouts are way too in love with speed. Guerra is a lenky 18-year old who's VERY raw and throws hard. He's basically Dellin Betances. Of course, we're excited about Dellin Betances, but he's miles away from being a potential star. I just think that's a strong statement.

Fernando Martinez was the only potential star in the Mets system and he's so young that it's a stretch to make that statement about him as well.

http://battinforthenats.mlblogs.com/natking/




"And we're likely to never see him again unless the Mets trade him down the line. Johan's never going to see the WS now."

_________________________________

We don't want to discuss a Met rotation of Pedro,Santana,Maine and Perez in the lighter hitting N.L. do we? Think we can we get some statements from Cashman when the Mets win the World Series while Hughes is still working on pitching from the stretch position

;-D This is the best thing that could have happened for the Yanks. Santana is gone to another league and the BoSox did not get him. We will face him only in the AllStar game and the series if the Mets make it.

Most importantly we keep our rookies. I never understood who would replace Melky in CF, Damon ??? He is over the hill and we have no one in the minors ready to replace him.

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