Journal News beat writer Peter Abraham

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Journal News beat writer Peter Abraham

Post  RedMagma on Tue Jan 29, 2008 6:11 pm

Journal News beat writer Peter Abraham
Yankees watch as Santana goes to Mets


http://yankees.lhblogs.com/



The Twins have agreed to trade Johan Santana to the Mets contingent on his agreeing to a contract extention. Minnesota would receive OF Carlos Gomez and RHPs Phil Humber, Deolis Guerra and Kevin Mulvey.

Santana reportedly pressured the Twins to make up their mind and GM Bill Smith gave teams until Tuesday to make their best offers. My understanding is that the Yankees made no offer at all. It’s unclear whether the Red Sox offered anything.

The Yankees wanted no part of signing Santana to an extension, which will cost at least $100 million and could go as high as $140 million.

This is not a trade that can be evaluated now because we have no idea how the prospects will pan out. But at first glance, Minnesota would have been better off with the packages offered by the Red Sox or Yankees back in December at the Winter Meetings.

Phil Hughes, Melky Cabrera, Jon Lester and Jacoby Ellsbury are MLB ready players.

This deal could determine whether Brian Cashman remains the GM of the Yankees. If Santana becomes the ace of the Mets and leads them into the World Series, Cashman will have a lot of explaining to do to Little Stein.

Me? I’m interested to see what Phil Hughes turns out to be. It would seem the Yankees are indeed serious about developing their own players.

UPDATE, 7:10 p.m.: Minnesota called the Yankees today, hoping to get some sort of offer. Brian Cashman didn’t budge.

Boston reportedly took Jon Lester off the table and was offering a package led by Jacoby Ellsbury and Jed Lowrie.



# zee January 29th, 2008 at 5:49 pm

Good job yankees and good job Mets the twins are the real looosers
# JFud26 January 29th, 2008 at 5:49 pm

Bill Smith is a moron.
# Drive 4-5 January 29th, 2008 at 5:49 pm

Peter Gammons just said that not one of the players the Twins received would make the top 10 prospects list of either the Yankees or Red Sox.

This can’t be playing well in Minnesota.
# invictusyanks January 29th, 2008 at 5:50 pm

Personally, I am glad to see Hughes stay as well. I think it is unfair the bashing Cash is taking from some Yankees fans who are criticizing Cash for not making a deal with the Twins that did not include Hughes…as if Cashman can make the Twins accept an offer.
# mike eff January 29th, 2008 at 5:50 pm

not the best way for bill smith to start his career as GM. his inexperience made him gunshy at the meetings and today he and his team paid heavily for that indecision. the yanks and the sox packages were far superior to the one they “landed”
# raymagnetic ™ January 29th, 2008 at 5:52 pm

“Me? I’m interested to see what Phil Hughes turns out to be. It would seem the Yankees are indeed serious about developing their own players.”

Couldn’t have said it better myself Pete.
# Go NYR January 29th, 2008 at 5:53 pm

The price is always higher for us.
# B January 29th, 2008 at 5:53 pm

I mean, the Orioles got much more talent for Bedard. Bill Smith should just quit now and save time.
# CYF January 29th, 2008 at 5:53 pm

Bill, Bill, Bill….. a bird in the hand….
# Rebecca--Optimist Prime--Save the Three Musketeers! January 29th, 2008 at 5:54 pm

I am so happy right now, you guys can’t possibly imagine.
# Old Goat January 29th, 2008 at 5:54 pm

Bill Smith blew it big time. He is now offically the laughing stock of all GMs.

Think about it. Smith was demanding Hughes and Kennedy and Melky and a prospect. Instead he gets no MLB ready players, just prospects that might be ready in 2 years to start contributing.

The Twins didn’t get to plug up one single hole in their lineup or rotation with this.
# Inferno January 29th, 2008 at 5:54 pm

good move for the yanks. keep our kids, and keep him away from Boston. see ya johan, enjoy shea.
# 213 Area Code January 29th, 2008 at 5:54 pm

This couldn’t have worked out better for NYY fans. JS didn’t go to BeanWorld, we don’t sacrifice any of our future, and if anyone wants to watch JS they can. I’m relieved & hope it works out for Willie.
# ummfada January 29th, 2008 at 5:54 pm

Stiennbrenner just lol’d
# Titan January 29th, 2008 at 5:54 pm

Like it or not…This is great news for the Yankees. Santana is’t going to the Red Sox and the Yanks aren’t overpaying in prospects & $.
Although I would have like to acquire Santana after this season via free agency.
# Todd January 29th, 2008 at 5:55 pm

Three months of waiting … for that!

Minny should have kept him in ‘08 and taken the two draft picks.
# Drive 4-5 January 29th, 2008 at 5:56 pm

So does this mean the Yankees are going to go along with Congress and refund us Season Ticket holders that 30% price increase? Smile
# JW January 29th, 2008 at 5:56 pm

Perfect. I didn’t really want Santana at that price, but it would have been revolting to see him go to Boston. The Mets aren’t even that good. They’ve got Beltran, Wright, Reyes, Santana and Maine. Everyone else is old/average. Lets hope Hughes is good because if he’s not, Hanks is going to ship off all of our young talent for the overpriced vets who have haunted the team in recent years.
# YankeeJosh January 29th, 2008 at 5:57 pm

The Yankees wanted no part of signing Santana to an extension, which will cost at least $100 million and could go as high as $140 million.

Well, it doesn’t sound like the Yankees were out of the mix because the Twins wouldn’t listen to non-Hughes offers. And if that’s the case, I think it’s a mistake. I’m glad the Big 3 are staying but this still hurts!
# Boston Dave January 29th, 2008 at 5:58 pm

Any Minny fans in here? Or has anyone visited the Twins blogs?

They were ripping the original Hughes deal saying it wasn’t close to enough. I wonder how they feel now.

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Re: Journal News beat writer Peter Abraham

Post  RedMagma on Tue Jan 29, 2008 6:14 pm

# Fleas January 29th, 2008 at 6:00 pm

“The Red Sox offered packages centering around lefthander Jon Lester and another centering around outfielder Jacoby Ellsbury. Infielder Jed Lowrie was believed to be attached to both deals, but it was learned on Tuesday that, in recent weeks, the Twins and Red Sox had changed some of the names in the back end of the deal.”

source: Star Tribune LaVelle III 3 three tres etc..
# MMF January 29th, 2008 at 6:02 pm

Sorry, should have read:

Hughes & Cabrerra + prospects or

Lester & Els + prospects
# G. Love January 29th, 2008 at 6:02 pm

Drive 4-5,

That’s the funny part. They will never lower their prices regardless if payroll goes down.

A lot of people in here seem to think that the Yankees payroll decreasing is a wonderful thing.

And it is, for the fricking Steinbrenners!

Not for any of us.

If the payroll drops to $150 million because of the youth movement the savings will not be fed down to us.

They’ll go to 300 foot statue of George that will be built at the new stadium. He’ll probably be standing next to the giant bat.

Our tickets, parking and concessaions are about to take a massive jump.

That’s why I’m stunned the Yankees got dollar sense about paying Johan. Stunned.

I’d rather them spend for young top talent than not spend and make me pay $40 to park next season.

But that’s just me.

Just makes me laugh how some in here think the Yankees lowering payroll is a great homey warm fuzzy wonderful thing, when the only people it directly benefits are the owners.


It also says the Yankees never even made an offer. Wow. They NEVER even made an offer when the Twins set the deadline. What happened when Steinbrenner said that “The Twins will call us before they make a deal”. Did he call you Hank? Please tell us?

I’d feel better if we at least offered something and the Twins decided against it. However, to not even offer anything.. well that to me says the Yankees were playing hardball and didn’t get that phone call that Hank thought they would.

I am calmer now, forgive me for being overly-excited earlier. I still stick to my beliefs.
Are weakness is still Pitching. With or without the kids. Just not as weak. If they had the innings on their arm to contribute all season, I would feel more optimistic.

With all that said.

Bill Smith is not cut out to be a major league GM. He should be laughed at and rightly so.


“The Yankees wanted no part of signing Santana to an extension, which will cost at least $100 million and could go as high as $140 million.

Well, it doesn’t sound like the Yankees were out of the mix because the Twins wouldn’t listen to non-Hughes offers. And if that’s the case, I think it’s a mistake. I’m glad the Big 3 are staying but this still hurts!”

That’s pete’s interpretation.

Heyman said:

“Meanwhile, the Yankees have told the Twins that they will now no longer include young pitcher Phil Hughes in any deal and appear to be just about out of the running now, if not completely out.”

So…do with that what you will.

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Re: Journal News beat writer Peter Abraham

Post  RedMagma on Tue Jan 29, 2008 6:14 pm

#

another Hispanic player on the Mets, what else is new?
# whozat January 29th, 2008 at 6:07 pm

“If they had the innings on their arm to contribute all season, I would feel more optimistic.”

You make it sound like they’ll each be around for 10 starts. That’s just not true. Phil can start about 25 games and hit his cap. Joba can start 20 and get his other 30 innings in the pen. Ian can start 30.
# JFud26 January 29th, 2008 at 6:08 pm

It’s almost like the Mets were rewarded for having the weakest farm system of the three teams involved in Santana talks. Because they didn’t have the MLB-ready big prospect, they got away with sending an inferior package.
# whozat January 29th, 2008 at 6:09 pm

“The guy is a ticking time bomb who is eating himself out of the league in his late 20’s.”

Like David Wells?

It’s pretty rich to say the reigning cy young winner is eating himself out of the league.
# Drive 4-5 January 29th, 2008 at 6:09 pm

G Love,

I couldn’t agree with you more! I think those of us who spend a lot of hard earned cash to attend games have a different perspective on the Yankee’s payroll. For top price, we want to see the best team possible.

That’s not to say that the Yankees best team couldn’t be one with Hughes & Kennedy. As long as the Yankees are investing our money into the farm system and augmenting those youngsters with established players, I’m fine.

I just don’t EVER want to hear about the Yankees cutting payroll just for the sake of saving money. You and I are going to pay the same high prices, regardless.
# Todd January 29th, 2008 at 6:10 pm

Twins got robbed……… But they had it coming, toying with teams for over 2 months…..Greedy, and they paid for it…….
# G. Love January 29th, 2008 at 6:11 pm

Except Wells was not a power pitcher. It’s a big difference.

Name me the last severely overweight power pitcher who had a long injury free career.

CC will be shell of himself w/in 3 years.

He’s probably one of the worst long term pitching investments in baseball.
# Blargh January 29th, 2008 at 6:12 pm

Eh, prices go up as long as they know tickets will still be sold
After all, from the seller’s side, if you can raise the price but still sell the same amount anyway, you have no reason not to raise the price
# Fleas January 29th, 2008 at 6:13 pm

whozat,

I believe it is common practice around MLB that you do NOT want to add more than 30 innings a year on young arms, so with what you just said, that would common practice would be out the window.

Even if they are allowed to throw more than 30 innings over the most each have thrown, will they have the stamina? I doubt it. So I stick to what I said.
# William H. January 29th, 2008 at 6:13 pm

Whether or not the Mets make it to the World Series will not effect Brian Cashman’s status with the Yankees. The development of the young arms and the Yankees’ playoff performance will.

Johan will be able to dominate the NL East far mroe easily than the AL East. The Mets are immediately the favorite to represent the NL in the World Series. Getting Johan would not have done that for the Yankees.
# YankeeJosh January 29th, 2008 at 6:14 pm

whozat

True, we don’t know the whole story. If the Twins indeed wouldn’t budge from Hughes, then I really can’t blame the Yankees. I do find it hard to believe, but is is a possibility. But if it was about the money, I’ll be disappointed. There are other ways to trim back on payroll that could have made getting Sanatana more reasonable from a financial standpoint.
# G. Love January 29th, 2008 at 6:15 pm

Yeah Drive,

I’m not advocating making bad deals here. The Yanks could beat the Mets deal easily without including Hughes.

I just think that if Pete’s right and the dollar amount scared the Yankees off, then that is just wrong.

I’m paying through the nose for everything.

If all the young kids pan out and the payroll drops 50 million in a few years, I don’t think for a minute that any savings is going to be passed onto the consumer.

Johan was under 30 and an elite player, something we rarely have a crack at.

I’m sad we didn’t get him since I think we have enough depth to make the trade on paper.

If we made no other offer after pulling out at the winter meetings, that’s a hard pill to swallow when we clearly could use a pitcher like Johan on this team.

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Re: Journal News beat writer Peter Abraham

Post  RedMagma on Tue Jan 29, 2008 6:20 pm

Rotoworlds Take:

“Gomez and Guerra are big-time talents, but Gomez lacks plate discipline and might not fit in the top half of the lineup and an awful lot could go wrong before Guerra even sniffs the majors. Mulvey and Humber are third starters at best and probably more like fourths. It’s a whole lot better than losing Santana for draft picks next winter, but we’d have taken a Phil Hughes or Jacoby Ellsbury package over this.

Cashman’s gone after this season regardless of what Santana does.

January 29th, 2008 at 6:17 pm

“According to SI’s Jon Heyman, people familiar with the Mets thinking say they’d like to keep it to a five-year contract while Santana is believed to be seeking a deal for six or seven years…. Heyman also adds that the teams discussed possibly substituting reliever Jorge Sosa for Philip Humber in recent days, so Twins fans at least have a little something for which to be thankful.”

January 29th, 2008 at 6:17 pm

LMAO!!!!!!!

I remember talking to Twins fans and how they would never settle for anything other than Hughes, Melky, and atleast Kennedy or Jackson and Lester, Ellsbury, and Lowrie.

I hope they are happy right now. I hope they stay away from sharp objects. I wonder how long Bill Smith stays the GM…………he might as well just resign now, and live in a cave.

” If the Twins indeed wouldn’t budge from Hughes, then I really can’t blame the Yankees. I do find it hard to believe, but is is a possibility.”

The Twins set a “best offer” deadline today.. the Yankees didn’t even make an offer!
Redsox changed theirs.. (To what I dunno)

The Mets, we know.

Wow, Bill Smith has to be chewing his nails right now. I guess his Twins fans are just as shameless and will accept what he just did. It for sure was a fleecing.



# Fleas January 29th, 2008 at 6:20 pm

So with everyone in a frenzy over this deal, the only source so far is USA Today, since everyone else is quiet..

Maybe I am thinking like a criminal here, but could this be a ploy? That the Twins never even accepted the Mets deal? Or is it typical for everyone to say “No Comment” even though someone obviously broke the story.. to USA Today of all places!


JAke,

from what i read on a Twins blog, they are in denial and making themselves feel better by saying “who knew Liriano and Nathan would be this good”. they have a point, but they only risked losing Pierzynski on that deal. they just lost the best pitcher in baseball for the rights to roll the dice on some marginal prospects.



Santana is gone, Be happy people!
We keep our kids and hopefully, take pride in the fact that we will see them mature into big time pitchers. We can still win without Santana. Just think; we trade (Pitching only) Phil, IPK, Horne…get Santana. Santana give us 20 wins, we all say, “I’ll take that”. Where do you get the wins that two pitchers would’ve given us (possible Three)? Oh, I see we bring up more from the farm, right? Wrong…they all are a step behind these guys you are giving up, so again where do you get the wins? Chances are Phil and IPK will give us 20/30 wins. Add in (Maybe) Horne…because most teams use at least 7/8 pitchers a year…you get another 6/8 wins. Those extra 4/8 wins could put us in the POs. All this is supposition and hope, but it looks nice on paper. Besides, I didn’t want this trade anyhow. Can you tell? 27/08


Just wanted to throw something into the innings question w/r/t Hughes and Joba. There has been documentation, by Heyman or Rosenthal, I can’t remember, that the innings increase of +30 per year is helpful only when considering ML innings. IOW, minor league innings don’t necessarily translate to major league innings, as far as the correlation of large innings increases and injuries are concerned. If anyone wants to back me up on that with a link, that would be fantastic.


January 29th, 2008 at 6:47 pm

Imagine if Johan doesn’t sign the extention now after all this.

I doubt it though.

I don’t see where this is going to propel the Mets into the World Series though. The team fell apart last season, the only real upgrade they have done is 1 SP. How is that going to make that large a difference? While Santana is a great pitcher, he still will need the rest of the team to play.

Smith blew it big time. There is no excuse for blowing it this big.


The Yankees sit back and let everything unfold again.The Yankees have made several mistakes over the last few years and cashman’s strategies are not working.

frits:

Carroll cited Tom Verducci of SI:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/writers/tom_verducci/11/28/pitchers/index.html

Carroll’s post on this blog is available if you go back a week or two. very interesting stuff…


Guys, please.

We will always own the Mets - Santana or not.

Him going to the Mets doesn’t affect us unless we meet them in the playoffs or the very few games we play against them during the season.

We didn’t want him - the Twins were asking more from us than they asked from the Mets, we just contributed a lot of money to A-Rod who contributes EVERY day, and I think Phil Hughes and Ian Kennedy are awesome and not worth giving up.

Good for the Yankees to keep him from going to Boston, good for the Mets who bought themselves a postseason appearance or two… but give me Hughes, Chamberlain, and Kennedy any day over Perez, Old Duque, and Pelfrey. And you mix Pettitte against the weak throwing Pedro, Wang on a good day against Santana’s numbers against the good AL East teams and you got a wash.


As a fan, I feel ambivalent. It would be hard to not like a trade that would bring in a 2 time Cy Young winning lefty ace still in his 20s. However, I also love the idea of watching Hughes and Joba and other youth develop into potential stars.

Taking off my fan cap though, I think its a trade Cashman should have made. Its really hard to guess what Hughes will develop into and none of the other three would have been big losses. Not making the trade is a huge risk. If Hughes doesn’t develop into an ace, they will be kicking themselves because young elite pitchers very rarely come on the market. And when they do, you still have to hope you have the best package.

At least he’s not in Boston.

“Peter Gammons just said that not one of the players the Twins received would make the top 10 prospects list of either the Yankees or Red Sox.”

If Gammons is correct, the Twins should have asked the Yanks for prospects #s 8, 9, 10 and 11 and would have been better off if we’d agreed. I guess Bill Smith preferred a headline reading “4 of the Mets’ top 7 prospects. If we could have landed Santana without trading Cano, Cabrera, Hughes, Chamberlain, Kennedy, Jackson, Horne and Tabeta, I’d be strongly in favor. But… water under the bridge.

Bottom line: I’m happy the Yanks didn’t overpay and are giving the kids a chance. And congrats to the Mets (it’s a great deal for them)

January 29th, 2008 at 7:03 pm

If Hughes doesn’t develop into an ace, they will be kicking themselves because young elite pitchers very rarely come on the market.

They would have given up a future potential ace, our starting center fielder and 2 plus arms in the penn. The only way this doesn’t work for the Yankees is if Hughes bombs - I don’t see that happening.

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Re: Journal News beat writer Peter Abraham

Post  RedMagma on Tue Jan 29, 2008 6:23 pm

The Red Sox offered packages centering around lefthander Jon Lester and another centering around outfielder Jacoby Ellsbury. Infielder Jed Lowrie was believed to be attached to both deals, but it was learned on Tuesday that, in recent weeks, the Twins and Red Sox had changed some of the names in the back end of the deal.
Source: http://nc.startribune.com/blogs/neal/?p=320

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Re: Journal News beat writer Peter Abraham

Post  RedMagma on Tue Jan 29, 2008 6:27 pm

Bronx,




Mike: I've probably just been listening to too many fans of other teams badmouth them, lol. I can tell you i was a lot more excited about them a couple months ago. For Masterson though, I've never seen anything outside soxprospects project him to have a #2 ceiling (and considering the likely bias of the site I'm a bit skeptical). BA for example, seemed more convinced he'd be a set-up man or a closer if he was traded away.

masteron only projects as a big time set up guy if he cant keep developing his change up. if his change keeps on developing then he can be a very good starter. ive seen him pitch like i said quite a few times and even at a game at fenway park when they had the minor league teams play and he is very impressive live. even if he makes it to the majors this coming season for a bullpen role i bet farrell can do lots to things to make him even better. as far as lowrie goes there are conflicting reports about his defense. from what ive seen his defense is good enough at short and if just makes him even a better option if he can keep hitting the way he does. he is the type of hitter who can hit for a high average and work the count on pitcher really good. he wont hit home runs or anything but he will hit for a good average, play solid defense, and be a solid piece for any team. like i said im glad the sox can keep these guys cause they are good players and can play a big role to helping a team out for a long time. the twins needed an infielder which would of been lowrie and they could of had either lester or ellsbury along with masterson. that was such a great deal for them. i mean i cant wait to see what lester can do with the help of farrell. when lester has his stuff working he is an awesome pitcher to watch. lets not forget mike bowden or ryal kalish who could of also been had by the twins during winter meetings. kalish who is still raw has a huge upside along with bowden who can also be a solid starting pitcher. ill admit first that im a sox fan and follow and see alot of these guys live in action and all of them are impressive. i cant say much about the mets or yankees prospects but i just think the twins really blew this one. they would of been so much better off taking the hughes package of the sox package. i would of love to seen the yanks get rid of hughes cause he has the makings of being an ace. i cant wait to see future matching with hughes going up against buchholz cause both of them are going to be great pitchers. the sox got a lot of depth in their farm system i could still see them even trading any of these guys to find a big time catcher that they really need for the future





Anyone else surprised that somehow the Yankees fanbase has been tricked into thinking that keeping the young pitching means they are going to win next year?

I can see the argument that this deal is a win for the Red Sox as well but I am not buying the Yankees on the winning side. People have forgot it was not that the Red sox and Yankees did not need Santana it was the Mets needed him most and make no mistake about it the Yankees very much needed him if they are going to hold to this win the world series every year or bust mantra. It made sense for the yankees to say no when the price was too high but judging by the final package that got Santana Yankees fans should not be celebrating. It definitely looks like they had to completely bow out because they could not afford him (how funny/crazy is that).





If I was a Mets fan right now, I would be ecstatic. They just got the best pitcher in baseball for two likely back of the rotation starters, and two huge wild cards in Guerra and Gomez. But at the same time, I don't get why critics seem so determined to bash this offer. Gomez, while he has his hitting issues, is still blazing fast. If the guy puts it together with the bat, he's a monster. Then again, if he doesnt then he becomes Joey Gathright. Guerra has front of the rotation potential but also is very, very raw. Mulvey is a possible #3 guy, but I think a back of the rotation sort of guy may be more likely. Humber is already 25 so you almost sorta know what he is already. He'll be a solid 5 starter or something but he's nothing special. But when it comes down to it, between the first two guys mentioned, thats a ton of star potential. More than any of the other offers, which included really only one star potential player in each (Hughes, Ellsbury, Lester). At least in this deal the Twins get 2 possible stars.

But I think they dropped the ball somewhat by not getting Fernando Martinez. He's gonna be a stud with the bat one day, and yet New York still managed to hold onto him. There is almost no logical reason I can see for the Twins not getting him, unless they just preferred Gomez.

And also can someone give Omar Minaya a hand. The guy has been bashed all offseason for not getting an ace. Well, now you have one, and you didnt give up Martinez. You're probably the best team in the NL now. Minaya gets to keep his job for a decent while longer now, unless Santana pulls a Mark Prior or something.




"but i wish he had gone to a contending team"

He was on a contending team. With him and Lirano leading the rotation they were quite good. If he would have taken 5 years at 20 M Per he could have stayed on a contending team. Despite playing in the same division as the Tigers/Indians. The Twins also have a few more farm hands and by '09 I think the Twins are gonna be right there at the end of the season.

But I think he will like being around all the other latin players Omar has put together. Plus he gets to bat. The boy can actually hit so I think the Mets did well. I just hope for the Twins sake that at least 2 of the 4 prospects are able to make the big league roster some day and stick. I would hate for the Twins to get nothing.

As for all the comments on Polhad being so rich. I am actually quite tired of it. He has his personal wealth and isnt afraid to give people reasonable contracts, but why should he spend more than the team makes? That is just silly. Now that being said he is 90 I would imagine he would want 1 more before he goes but still...




"Anyone else surprised that somehow the Yankees fanbase has been tricked into thinking that keeping the young pitching means they are going to win next year?

I can see the argument that this deal is a win for the Red Sox as well but I am not buying the Yankees on the winning side."

You seem to be forgetting that the Twins did not accept the packages that the Yankees and Red Sox offered. So analyzing Santana for Hughes/Cabrera/Marquez misses the point. The Yankees would have had to give up even more than that. Plus take on the risk of a huge contract for Santana. What exactly is so wrong with Yankee fans thinking that they're better off not making the trade? After all, that's not the same thing as thinking that the Yankees couldn't use a Cy Young caliber pitcher, and it's not the same thing as thinking that the guys they didn't trade are all going to be studs right away. I'd have been very, very happy to have had Santana in pinstripes, but I would not have paid any price to make it happe



"Mets needed Santana the most of the three, so not getting Mike Pelfrey and Fernando Martinez back for Johan is unimaginable."

That says it all. The Yanks have a pipeline of good young pitching and the Sox just won a World Series with theirs. They weren't going to budge. Beyond them, the Mets were the only team with the payroll to get it done and shipping him to the NL was the cherry on top. Smith did the best he could given the circumstances. That's my impartial analysis.

Now for my Mets fan analysis...

WOOOOOOOOHOOOOOO!!!!!!







"As for all the comments on Polhad being so rich. I am actually quite tired of it. He has his personal wealth and isnt afraid to give people reasonable contracts, but why should he spend more than the team makes?"

I'm quite tired of all the comments about the Twins being so poor. This is a franchise that has been pretty consistently in the black. They had a profit of over $15M in 2006. They get more money in revenue sharing every year. They get more money from MLBAM every year. They'll get a big revenue boost with the new ballpark in 2010. Pohlad didn't need to spend his own money to keep Santana.

In reality, this trade will probably make the Twins less profitable in the short term. They drew about 7,000 more fans per game in Santana's starts than in the rest of their home games, and with a team that's now not too likely be competitive, attendance will suffer beyond just the loss of a key drawing card.

OTOH, I really don't blame them for not wanting to go beyond a five year extension. Great as Johan is, those things tend to not work out real well with pitchers.

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Re: Journal News beat writer Peter Abraham

Post  RedMagma on Tue Jan 29, 2008 6:29 pm

Oh $&!#. I can't believe this happened. Who would have guessed that the Twins would fleece themselves with second rate prospects?
Hats off to Omar Minaya for pulling off this fleece. Frank Wren, a response (and by response I mean equally positive game-changing move) please

soxwin- I think there top 4 ( of course if healthy) can be dominate in the playoffs. 1.Santana 2.Pedro 3.Maine 4. O.Perez, all have possiblity of throwing 3 hit shutouts on any night. Good luck NL.



Wow, Bill Smith really overplayed his hand there. Instead of getting Phil Hughes/Melky Cabrera or Lester/Lowrie/Masterson, he got the Mets' second-rate package.

He should have pulled the trigger on either the Yanks or Red Sox offers last month.

Mets needed Santana the most of the three, so not getting Mike Pelfrey and Fernando Martinez back for Johan is unimaginable.

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Re: Journal News beat writer Peter Abraham

Post  RedMagma on Tue Jan 29, 2008 6:33 pm

Terrible either for Yankees. Now the 2 most hated teams, Mets and Red Sox are possibly better. They stole Santana for B prospects. Terrible. I'm never going to hear the end of this from Mets fans. Damn Cashman grow some balls and make a move.



Grinch, Pedroia wasn't on the table and never was and won't be coming up in trade talks any time in the near future.

I'm going to say for the record Smith didn't do a bad job considering.
1) The Twins had no chance of resigning Santana and you can thank Polhad for that. One of the richest owners yet the stingiest. So...
2) Smith was left with 2 options, trade Santana or pocket 2 draft picks, basically the trade value was a better bet.
3) Santana's no trade clause slimmed down an already slim market
4) The price tag that Santana would require as an extension really left it down to 4 realistic teams.
5) Both the Red Sox and Yankees, didn't really NEED Santana. Yanks are content with their youth movement and the Sox already had a formidable rotation.

Let's put it this way, Twins got the best they were at any time going to get since the Yanks were never going to offer more than Hughes + Melky + B prospect and the Red Sox were never going to over more than Lester + Crisp + Masterson + Lowrie or Elssbury + Masterson + Lowrie. And ultimately the package from the Mets while riskier has a higher potential in the long run and is better than getting 2 1st round picks.





Grinch, Pedroia wasn't on the table and never was and won't be coming up in trade talks any time in the near future.

I'm going to say for the record Smith didn't do a bad job considering.
1) The Twins had no chance of resigning Santana and you can thank Polhad for that. One of the richest owners yet the stingiest. So...
2) Smith was left with 2 options, trade Santana or pocket 2 draft picks, basically the trade value was a better bet.
3) Santana's no trade clause slimmed down an already slim market
4) The price tag that Santana would require as an extension really left it down to 4 realistic teams.
5) Both the Red Sox and Yankees, didn't really NEED Santana. Yanks are content with their youth movement and the Sox already had a formidable rotation.

Let's put it this way, Twins got the best they were at any time going to get since the Yanks were never going to offer more than Hughes + Melky + B prospect and the Red Sox were never going to over more than Lester + Crisp + Masterson + Lowrie or Elssbury + Masterson + Lowrie. And ultimately the package from the Mets while riskier has a higher potential in the long run and is better than getting 2 1st round picks.

Posted by: start_wearing_purple | January 29, 2008 at 04:48 PM

"Does anyone else think it might be possible that Theo saw what the Mets were offering and decided to bring down the Red Sox offer to that level? It had been reported recently that the Sox had taken Lester off the table. I wouldn't be shocked if Lester, Ellsbury, Lowrie and Masterson were all taken off the table. All those guys are better than anyone the Twins are getting in this deal.

I never thought Theo was that enthusiastic about making this deal anyway, when he saw that the best player the Mets were offering was Gomez, I just think he went in and said "Well, would you guys take this if that's what it would take?" and probably made some offer with Bowden or Oscar Tejeda or some other lower prospects. For me, this works out well because the Sox can hang onto their prospect depth and begin finding a new home for Crisp, which may be easier said than done at this point.

TheGrinch, since when was Pedroia on the table? That's the first time I've heard that."

TheGrinch is misinformed about Pedroia.

As for the sox prospects being better than anything offered by the Mets, Ellsbury and Lester are better. Lowrie and Masterson on the other hand aren't. Masterson isn't even necessarily able to start and certainly doesn't have a higher ceiling than any of the pitchers the Mets put up (as a starter anyways). If Lowrie's at all better, it would only be because he fit their needs a bit better (strong bat and middle infielder). He certainly has his weaknesses (poor defense and a lackluster showing overall in the AFL).

I do agree it's likely Theo decreased his offerings a bit though.


I'm actually kind of excited to see now what we can get for Crisp (and possibly Lowrie or anyone else they feel is blocked).




"why does no one realize that this basically came down to where Johan wanted to go...depending on how hard he pushed the issue..the twins could have been left with no choice but to send him to the mets"

You're right...except you forgot to add emphasis to the word could. There was never any overt statement supporting the belief that he wanted to play for the Mets. You could absolutely be right but I doubt we'll ever know.


Congrats NY Mets Great Deal.
Good Job Trader Omar!
Now just sign him so we do not have to hear anymore about this until the free agent sweepstakes begins for CC.

RedMagma

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Re: Journal News beat writer Peter Abraham

Post  RedMagma on Tue Jan 29, 2008 6:40 pm

I mean fuckin Omar wow.

The guy coulda taken that package and gotten Haren or Bedard with it, and 6 weeks ago it looked as if that package had no chance with the twins. But he stays consistent, he betted on the yanks and sox keeping their top prospects, and ultimately after the Hughes DEBACLE (minny fans are going to be killing themselves this time next year thinking they could of had that guy) Omar again bet on Cashman's pull, and by golly george the son of a bitch pulled it off.


Minny fans got screwed. Mets fan it doesn't get better then this offseason wise, probably never will. wow.



Watch Mike Lupica's in his future column and He will write about Yankees spending not even talk about Mets getting Santana.In July when Yankees are six games behind Redsox , Lupica's will have a stupid article pertaining to Yankees and their $200 million bust payroll.

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