The same ESPN that called nathan a failed starter with a tir

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The same ESPN that called nathan a failed starter with a tir

Post  RedMagma on Wed Jan 30, 2008 6:55 pm

The reason we took the Mets offer over the Yankees...

Torii Hunter.

When Torii left, a CF of the future became a big priority. Chances are management didn't like Melky enough to have a deal hinge around him, and the Yankees wouldn't offer up both Hughes and Melky in the same package, which I'm sure we would've gone for. This deal hinged around Gomez, a guy who I expect to be starting for us for years to come and eventually being a perennial 50 SB 100 runs guy.

Don't forget about the Delmon Young trade either. I think that was an excellent move by Smith, and he also just locked in Morneau and Cuddy.

We may be developing for a couple years now, but come time for the new ballpark we are set to be every year contenders for a whille down the road.


what a joke gomez the center piece of the trade. We could have got a better CF from cracker jacks. The media is saying we got a bad deal. These so called prospects we got from the Mets ranked 2,3,4, and 7 in their farm system, wouldn't crack the top 10 in some teams. I heard this on ESPN.

The same ESPN that called nathan a failed starter with a tired arm? That Liriano was a raw, hard throwing, high risk prospect? Mark Prior was the sure thing and the twins cheaped out with mauer. It's safe to say that espn can't scout for crap. I was foollish enough to listen to espn on the AJ trade (I liked AJ) and I learned my lesson. Trust the twins scouts.

It's not ideal, we might miss (unlikely) on all these guys, but at WORST I think we ended up with a backup outfielder/pinchrunner and a couple of back of the rotation starters. Turns out back of the rotation guys are worth 12 mil per over 4 years. Not great for santana, but draft picks are much much iffier.

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Re: The same ESPN that called nathan a failed starter with a tir

Post  RedMagma on Wed Jan 30, 2008 6:58 pm

If Roids Clemens made millions as a part time pitcher with the Yanks the last 2 years

Wrong, Clemens only sign for one year. Get your fact straight....... Not two years.

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Re: The same ESPN that called nathan a failed starter with a tir

Post  RedMagma on Wed Jan 30, 2008 7:02 pm

Santana deserves some blame for being greedy. He could have been paid $80 million by the Twins over the next four seasons which is market value. But instead he decided that wasn't enough. That makes me believe that Johan never intended on remaining a Twin. Its sad that somebody who grows up in a poor nation like Venezuala decides that the Twins situation isn't good enough. I guess that's how alot of pro athletes conduct business these days




Can't blame Santana - he'll get a lot more in New York.

Can't blame Twins for pulling the trigger on the deal. Front office had their hands tied. If we held on to him, then we would've had Santana for one year, he would've left, and then we'd have nothing to show for it.

All comes down to the fact that the Twins are smaller market team. The disparity among the big market teams and small market teams is a joke.


Why shouldn't he get what he is worth? I'll side w/player over managment anyday. Esp after the little Pohlad has done over the last 20 years. What MN needs is an owner who will actually try to improve revenue instead of holding the state hostage for a stadium and then not paying market value for his free agents.


I'm not sure that 2 #1 picks and one year with Lariano and johan pitching together isn't better then the crap NY gave us.


What really ticks me off when people defend the pohlads is the fact that they look at the revenues and say they spend what they can based on team revenue. They never take in the fact that a team they bought for 33 million is now worth 1 billion or close to it, with the new stadium built mostly with taxpayer money. Even if they hadn't drawn a single fan in their entire ownership they would probably be in the black when you consider the increase in team value.


Is $20 million a year not enough? That's in line with the salaries of other top pitchers. Johan should have realized that a four year deal worth $80 million gives him alot of options. He gets paid while still having another chance at free agency in 2012 when he is in his prime. The way the market is going a pitcher of his dominance will be commanding $30 million a year within the next five years




Santana already gave ur sissy owner a discount.

Jesus the royals are paying players 11million/12million a year to have distant players, while ur owner cant afford the best pitcher in baseball, thats sounds like royals management.

Suck it.


While the ownership can say they'll spend 52 percent of their revenue on players, I doubt that they did during the lean year of the late 1990s or this year. The Twins had their third-best attendance of all-time last year (if I remember right), and their payroll this year doesn't reflect that.

I think it's fine that ownership doesn't want to have spend more money than it makes, but you need to spend that money wisely.

The frustrating thing for me is that ownership didn't do more for this team during the last few playoff runs. That's when you throw those numbers out the window and say, "We're going for a title." Spend more money when you're winning and make it all up when you're rebuilding, like right now.



Now we find out that Johan never intended on staying with the Twins. Smith upped his offer to five years and $100 million which is more than fair. But Johan just had to go to New York. You can blame Pohlad for being cheap, but not in this case.


If Roids Clemens made millions as a part time pitcher with the Yanks the last 2 years... how much would it cost for the best pitcher in baseball at this very moment to play for Twins?

Of course Johan can be part of the blame but he deserves to be paid with the same value of Roid Clemens and definitely more than Zito.

But you know? I could just see Mr. Smith now hoping and praying this transaction will become successful.... realizing he just made the biggest mistake of his GM career. He could have gone back to the Yanks and said... give us Hughes and Cabrera or Cano which I think would have been better than the 4 average Mets prospects. This would still have given them the chance to compete in AL Central.

Anyway... there's still chance that Johan will be a Twin. 28M/year? Can the Mets afford to gamble that? Hey... Santana can still be a Yank in 2009 if not a Sox.


Actually, your the idiot. The Twins had no chance at keeping Santana. It was obvious that he wanted to play in New York. Explain why he wouldn't accept five years and $100 million with the Twins? That's more than enough to live comfortably and satisfy the ego. Besides, Santana would get another chance at free agency in his mid 30's when he could back up the Brinks truck again. What angers me the most is the games Santana played. If he really wanted out, he could have given the Twins some options out of respect. Instead he threatened to invoke his no trade which limited the Twins leverage in potential trades during the season. What could the Twins have gotten at the trading deadline this year had Santana not conducted business like a baby?

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Re: The same ESPN that called nathan a failed starter with a tir

Post  RedMagma on Wed Jan 30, 2008 7:02 pm

Thank god Santana isn't a Yankee
vicphoenix13 Post #1: 3:34 pm Quote | Report Violation
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I know the Twins didn't get a great return for Santana, but I am not all that angry. I was never a fan of trading Santana to the Yankees for a couple reasons:

1. Hank Steinbrenner is a punk who uses threats as negotiating tactics.

2. Phil Hughes is overrated by Yankees fans. If Hughes is so special, then why did Joba Chamberlain have a much bigger impact last season?

3. The Yankees act like the rest of Major League Baseball should bow to them. Any time a big name player is going to be traded, they expect the other team to accept trash in return.

4. Their $220 million payroll is outrageous.

5. I want the Twins to avoid facing Santana as much as possible. There would be nothing worse than giving the Yankees an ace. Let them suffer with mediocre starting pitching.
YankeeInMD8 Post #2: 4:14 pm Quote | Report Violation
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I know the Twins didn't get a great return for Santana, but I am not all that angry. I was never a fan of trading Santana to the Yankees for a couple reasons:

1. Hank Steinbrenner is a punk who uses threats as negotiating tactics.

2. Phil Hughes is overrated by Yankees fans. If Hughes is so special, then why did Joba Chamberlain have a much bigger impact last season?

3. The Yankees act like the rest of Major League Baseball should bow to them. Any time a big name player is going to be traded, they expect the other team to accept trash in return.

4. Their $220 million payroll is outrageous.

5. I want the Twins to avoid facing Santana as much as possible. There would be nothing worse than giving the Yankees an ace. Let them suffer with mediocre starting pitching.



As long as it's not the Yankees? So, you would have preferred the Red Sox? Hughes is overrated? So, I guess the Twins operations arm must not know what they're doing since they demanded him.

You know what's even more outrageous? The fact that your ownership has as much or more personal wealth than the Steinbrenners. Yet which ownership group values winning most? THAT'S the outrageous part. If Santana had been a Yankee from a rookie, he'd have never seen the FA market. Let alone the trading block. The Twins look like a penny ante operation. Our ticket prices have gone up the past few seasons. Yet, we still come out because we know the Steinbrenners want to put a WINNING product on the field and are trying to win every year. Not just a collection of parts to just squeak by. And, the fact that Twins fans put up with this is truly outrageous. There's no getting around it. You guys got your temperatures taken the old fashioned way. If the fact that it wasn't the Yankees helps you sleep at night, so be it. But you got hosed. Hey, enjoy those prospects chief.

celtdog80 Post #3: 4:25 pm Quote | Report Violation
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I know the Twins didn't get a great return for Santana, but I am not all that angry. I was never a fan of trading Santana to the Yankees for a couple reasons:

1. Hank Steinbrenner is a punk who uses threats as negotiating tactics.

2. Phil Hughes is overrated by Yankees fans. If Hughes is so special, then why did Joba Chamberlain have a much bigger impact last season?

3. The Yankees act like the rest of Major League Baseball should bow to them. Any time a big name player is going to be traded, they expect the other team to accept trash in return.

4. Their $220 million payroll is outrageous.

5. I want the Twins to avoid facing Santana as much as possible. There would be nothing worse than giving the Yankees an ace. Let them suffer with mediocre starting pitching.


#5 is a terrible reason. If the Yankees' deal was better than the Mets' deal, you have to take it. Same goes for the Red Sox. If you're trading to a team outside of your division, the impact of a trade to a team within the AL is minimal. The only thing that matters, given the Twins' position, is how they measure up to the White Sox, Indians, Tigers, and Royals.
ElCheesoKingo Post #4: 4:26 pm Quote | Report Violation
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I know the Twins didn't get a great return for Santana, but I am not all that angry. I was never a fan of trading Santana to the Yankees for a couple reasons:

1. Hank Steinbrenner is a punk who uses threats as negotiating tactics.

2. Phil Hughes is overrated by Yankees fans. If Hughes is so special, then why did Joba Chamberlain have a much bigger impact last season?

3. The Yankees act like the rest of Major League Baseball should bow to them. Any time a big name player is going to be traded, they expect the other team to accept trash in return.

4. Their $220 million payroll is outrageous.

5. I want the Twins to avoid facing Santana as much as possible. There would be nothing worse than giving the Yankees an ace. Let them suffer with mediocre starting pitching.


I feel you pain, but some counterpoints

1) If someone, while negotiating in good faith, feels they are being take advantage or played off of one another, they have every right to say: "heres my offer, take it or leave it" This is what Hank did

2) If Phil Hughes is over-rated by Yankee fans, then his is over-rated by virutally every scount in baseball.

3) I actually find this to be reverse. I'm not complaining, just stating the fact. The Yankees are actually asked to give up more for players than other teams (ie Soriano and Nick Johnson for Schilling, and Hughes & Melky for Santana). Actually it seems to me that the Yankees are used alot for people to get a better deal elsewhere. I dont think this is an accurate statement at all.

4) The fact that other teams dont have $200 million dollar payrolls is outrageous. Instead of pocketing revenue sharing and stifling their team. The Yankees (& Redsox, Mets, Dodgers) put money back into their teams and try to put the best product out there as possible. Instead of admonishing the Yankees for spending money, Critcize your teams already rich owner for not spending money

5) Fair Point, I think this is basically a rebuilding year for the Yankees pitching staff.
gunnarthor Post #5: 4:35 pm Quote | Report Violation
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I know the Twins didn't get a great return for Santana, but I am not all that angry. I was never a fan of trading Santana to the Yankees for a couple reasons:

1. Hank Steinbrenner is a punk who uses threats as negotiating tactics.

2. Phil Hughes is overrated by Yankees fans. If Hughes is so special, then why did Joba Chamberlain have a much bigger impact last season?

3. The Yankees act like the rest of Major League Baseball should bow to them. Any time a big name player is going to be traded, they expect the other team to accept trash in return.

4. Their $220 million payroll is outrageous.

5. I want the Twins to avoid facing Santana as much as possible. There would be nothing worse than giving the Yankees an ace. Let them suffer with mediocre starting pitching.


I feel you pain, but some counterpoints

1) If someone, while negotiating in good faith, feels they are being take advantage or played off of one another, they have every right to say: "heres my offer, take it or leave it" This is what Hank did

2) If Phil Hughes is over-rated by Yankee fans, then his is over-rated by virutally every scount in baseball.

3) I actually find this to be reverse. I'm not complaining, just stating the fact. The Yankees are actually asked to give up more for players than other teams (ie Soriano and Nick Johnson for Schilling, and Hughes & Melky for Santana). Actually it seems to me that the Yankees are used alot for people to get a better deal elsewhere. I dont think this is an accurate statement at all.

4) The fact that other teams dont have $200 million dollar payrolls is outrageous. Instead of pocketing revenue sharing and stifling their team. The Yankees (& Redsox, Mets, Dodgers) put money back into their teams and try to put the best product out there as possible. Instead of admonishing the Yankees for spending money, Critcize your teams already rich owner for not spending money

5) Fair Point, I think this is basically a rebuilding year for the Yankees pitching staff.



My concern with Hughes is his health. Trading Santana to the Yankees and then having Hughes on the Mark Prior road would have been hell for the Twins. You can't beef up a team that you are trying to compete against unless you know what you're getting back. The Mets deal is an adequate plan B.
ollie722 Post #6: 6:26 pm Quote | Report Violation
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I like how Yankee fans claim that the reason their payroll is so high is because their owner cares about winning more than anyone else. You half-wits, your team produces more revenue than any other team by atleast 70 million dollars (which in second are the Red Sox). Apart from these two teams every other team operates at or below (which the vast majority is well below) 200 million which is 100 million less than the Yankees.

Simple economics that has fallen by the wayside since the GOP has taken over is that you don't spend what you can't payback. Sure Pohlad is obscenely rich, but he got the way for a reason, he isn't going to blow his personal fortune on a payroll that his team revune won't be able to equal.

ElCheesoKingo Post #7: 7:02 pm Quote | Report Violation
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I like how Yankee fans claim that the reason their payroll is so high is because their owner cares about winning more than anyone else. You half-wits, your team produces more revenue than any other team by atleast 70 million dollars (which in second are the Red Sox). Apart from these two teams every other team operates at or below (which the vast majority is well below) 200 million which is 100 million less than the Yankees.

Simple economics that has fallen by the wayside since the GOP has taken over is that you don't spend what you can't payback. Sure Pohlad is obscenely rich, but he got the way for a reason, he isn't going to blow his personal fortune on a payroll that his team revune won't be able to equal.


But all these teams have no problem pocketing revenue sharing.

I actually believe that George Steinbrenner would take take a loss if he felt his team would be more competative for it. I really do.

I dont know about Hank or Hal.

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Re: The same ESPN that called nathan a failed starter with a tir

Post  RedMagma on Wed Jan 30, 2008 7:02 pm

Smith did what we had to do
ollie722 Post #1: 6:00 pm Quote | Report Violation
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I know there are alot of people on this board, people working at espn, and people through out the country that consider themselves MLB fans that think the Twins gave Santana away for nothing and are foolish for not taking earlier offers from the Sux or Spankee's. But if you take a step back and look at Smith's options that were afforded to him and what he had to do, this wasn't such a terrrible trade.

1. Johan wanted to leave and we weren't going to be able to resign him. That is a fact that we all can agree upon. But the issue nobody seems to focus on, is that realistically there are only a small handfull of teams able to meet Santana's asking price. Yanks, Sox, Angels, Dodgers, Astros?, and the Mets. Of these only the three showed interest and two of which are in the AL. Add all of these factors together and the Mets were the best possible destination under the circumstances.

2. Also Smith had basically no leverage in this dynamic because Santan was heading into free agency. Unlike with Garza where he had a young arm that wasn't arbitration eligible for atleast another four years, he got a solid LF in return.
3. Getting Gomez was the central peice in this trade obviously and i think in three years he will be better thsn Ellsbury and Smith will be hailed as a crafty GM able to make the most out of an impossible circumstance.
docpath2 Post #2: 6:58 pm Quote | Report Violation
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I know there are alot of people on this board, people working at espn, and people through out the country that consider themselves MLB fans that think the Twins gave Santana away for nothing and are foolish for not taking earlier offers from the Sux or Spankee's. But if you take a step back and look at Smith's options that were afforded to him and what he had to do, this wasn't such a terrrible trade.

1. Johan wanted to leave and we weren't going to be able to resign him. That is a fact that we all can agree upon. But the issue nobody seems to focus on, is that realistically there are only a small handfull of teams able to meet Santana's asking price. Yanks, Sox, Angels, Dodgers, Astros?, and the Mets. Of these only the three showed interest and two of which are in the AL. Add all of these factors together and the Mets were the best possible destination under the circumstances.

2. Also Smith had basically no leverage in this dynamic because Santan was heading into free agency. Unlike with Garza where he had a young arm that wasn't arbitration eligible for atleast another four years, he got a solid LF in return.
3. Getting Gomez was the central peice in this trade obviously and i think in three years he will be better thsn Ellsbury and Smith will be hailed as a crafty GM able to make the most out of an impossible circumstance.


I think 2 #1 picks would have been better prospects then what the twins got and they could be ready in 3-4 years. Smith is an effin idiot period.
LarryLegend1967 Post #3: 8:44 pm Quote | Report Violation
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There is NO QUESTION Smith got the best deal he could get YESTERDAY...

Overplaying his hand and leaving better deals on the table at the winter meetings and then being FORCED to settle for this is the reason the guy should be fired.

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Re: The same ESPN that called nathan a failed starter with a tir

Post  RedMagma on Wed Jan 30, 2008 7:06 pm

Baseball America ranks the prospects

http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2008/01/30/baseball-america-ranks-the-prospects/


The Baseball America Prospect Handbook came in the mail today. Here is their top 30 for the Yankees:

1. Joba Chamberlain, RHP
2. Austin Jackson, OF
3. Jose Tabata, OF
4. Ian Kennedy, RHP
5. Alan Horne, RHP
6. Jesus Montero, C
7. Jeff Marquez, RHP
8. Brett Gardner, OF
9. Ross Ohlendorf, RHP
10. Andrew Brackman, RHP
11. Mark Melancon, RHP
12. Humberto Sanchez, RHP
13. Dellin Betances, RHP
14. Dan McCutchen, RHP
15. Kevin Whelan, RHP
16. Carmen Angelini, SS
17. George Kontos, RHP
18. Ivan Nova, RHP
19. Collin Curtis, OF
20. Jairo Heredia, RHP
21. Juan Miranda, 1B
22. Austin Romine, C
23. Francisco Cervelli, C
24. Dave Robertson, RHP
25. Mike Dunn, LHP
26. J.B. Cox, RHP
27. Mitch Hilligoss, INF
28. Scott Patterson, RHP
29. Edwar Ramirez, RHP
30. Zach McAllister, RHP

One lefty? … Keep in mind that these rankings are done based on how the player projects, not what he has accomplished in the minors. … In the overall Top 50, Joba is 3rd, Tabata 22nd and Jackson 40th. … The Yankees are fifth in their overall organization talent rankings. … It's been a hard fall for Eric Duncan.






Yankees spend money to seed the farm


http://yankees.lhblogs.com/

I’ve been reading the BA Prospect Handbook (seriously, order one) and found several interesting things.

Here’s is what the Yankees spent on draft picks in recent years:

2007: $7.4 million.
2006: $6.3 million
2005: $3.7 million
2004: $4.8 million
2003: $3.8 million

and the Red Sox:

2007: $3.5 million
2006: $6.8 million
2005: $6.2 million
2004: $1.8 million
2003: $5.1 million

Those numbers must scare the heck out of the rest of baseball. Two high-revenue teams invested $34 million in talent in the last three years. We’re starting to see the results in Chamberlain, Hughes, Pedroia, Ellsbury, etc. Those figures do not include money spent on international signings, another area the Yankees have invested heavily in.

I think we could see Miranda, Horne, Melancon, Marquez, Gardner and McCutchen in the majors this season. Kennedy and Ohlendorf could make it out of camp. Joba, too, obviously.

The Yankees would be fools not to let Brian Cashman continue on the track he is on. That investment is going to start paying off.

It’s hard to predict what the day-to-day stories are going to be in spring training. News breaks when you least expect it. But I’m going to try and write stories on as many of these kids as I can

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Eddie C. Blog: Great Santana Heading To Queens

Post  RedMagma on Wed Jan 30, 2008 7:15 pm

Eddie C. Blog: Great Santana Heading To Queens


http://www.wfan.com/pages/1561662.php


Maybe now, finally, the barking of Mets fans will cease and desist. You'll need a reservation on that bandwagon which was emptying very quickly but is now filling up very rapidly. Move over, ladies and gentlemen, and make room for the Great Santana who's now come aboard (or soon will).

Patience, unfortunately, is not a virtue that many New Yorkers possess. And who could blame most Met fans for being impatient after suffering through the team's historic collapse in 2007. But patience was exactly what the doctor ordered when it came to securing the off-season's prized possession. Call it acquisition by default if you will - I don't believe most Met fans cared how, when or why Santana got here - just that he did.

There were two keys in my eyes to Santana landing in a Mets uniform, the first was recent, the other happened some time ago. The recent was the multi-year, multi-million dollar signing of 1B Justin Morneau (along with OF Michael Cuddyer). The faces of the Minnesota Twins were never Johan Santana or Torii Hunter - they were catcher and local product Joe Mauer and Morneau. The signing signaled an end to the money available to retain Santana. The other was the rejection, or hesitancy to pull the trigger, by new Twins G.M. Bill Smith on the Yankee deal headlined by pitcher Phil Hughes. Yanks G.M. Brian Cashman reiterated his position over the weekend and made it eminently clear - "My strong recommendation is we stick with our young pitching staff and keep it in-house. That's my recommendation, and we've fought hard to take one step back to take two giant steps forward". I've always felt that the Red Sox were in it as a hedge against the Yankees - and that left the Mets - and G.M. Smith desparately trying to induce some other team to join the fray.

If I understood the Yankee deal correctly (Hughes, Melky Cabrera, Double AA RHP Jeffrey Marquez and Single A 3B Mitch Hillegas), I still don't know why both teams didn't sign off on it. Hughes right now is ahead of any pitcher contained in the Mets package, and he has a great up-side. Plus, the Yankees have Joba Chamberlain to relieve or start and the promising Ian Kennedy. But the Yankee payroll sure doesn't need the bucks it will take to keep Santana happy.

Carlos Gomez will now patrol center field in Minnesota. He's an aggressive hitter who needs to learn more plate discipline, recognize pitches better and cut down on the strikeouts. But he has tremendous speed, a very good arm and might very well make Twins fans forget about the way Hunter played defense in a short amount of time. Missing two months with a broken hamate bone last season curtailed his development, but he'll catch up quickly - or should I say speedily. Of the pitchers, Philip Humber and Kevin Mulvey may arrive sooner, but Deolis Guerra is the one to watch. Guerra won't turn 19 until April and he already possesses a great Changeup. His fastball is in the mid-90's and he may top out a little more once he fills out his 6' 5" 200 pound frame. But he's a fast-tracker. Humber has a nasty curve ball, and this year may be the year he fully comes back from Tommy John surgery (July 2005). I like his mental toughness, which probably grows with more innings and success. Mulvey has all four pitches, needs better command of them and is a solid competitor.

Outside of trading Santana now, none of the Twins options were very good. They could have kept Santana until the July 31 trading deadline, at which point they'd receive a lesser package in return. They could have hoped to compete all season long, keep Santana until the end, and receive draft picks in return. Or they could have brought him to spring training, continuing to pursue a trade, and have Santana, Smith, Twins Manager Ron Gardenhire and other Twins players face a barrage of questions day after day concerning when and where Santana is going to end up. In the end, Smith finally decided to pull the trigger before the returns became any smaller.

Did Smith wait too long? Perhaps - only some time for the traded players to develop will ultimately tell. I'm a big proponent when there's a 4 or 5 for 1 deal, or a 6 for 2, look for the quality to trump the quantity. The Mets desperately needed someone to give them 200 innings, and they got Johan Santana, who'll give them 200 of the best innings in all of baseball. And they still possess their # 1 prospect, 19 year old future slugging outfielder Fernando Martinez.

The Mets have 3 days to sign Santana to an extension and don't worry, it will get done. You haven't gotten this far to lose on a TKO. The team would prefer shorter years and more money per year, but if they have to lengthen it with readily attainable levels for a couple of option years - they will. They haven't stopped everyone from jumping off bridges only to see them climb back up on the railing again. It'll get done.

And if the Mets learn from their great collapse of last year, finish the job this time, and make it to the playoffs this go-round, that's a pretty nice 1-2 punch at the top of the rotation to say hello to opponents with, don'cha think?

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Re: The same ESPN that called nathan a failed starter with a tir

Post  RedMagma on Wed Jan 30, 2008 7:48 pm

Already sick of the petty Yankee fans

http://www.metsrefugees.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=34945

for the last 24hrs or so, all the Yankee apologists, from Kay, to Fatcessa, to Steven A. Smith, to Max Kellerman, not to mention all the fans are all talking the same crap:

1) Santana's only a Mets because the Yankees allowed him to be!! Francessa even refused to address the reports that the METS and not the Yankees were Johan 1st choice.

2) The Yankees are better off...Phil Hughes is a...wait for it... a #1 starter!!! a few starts in the AL everyone annoints him, Joba and even Kennedy as top of the rotation starters...and that the Yankees are better off them instead of Santana

That idiot Kellerman even made the claim the Kennedy was better than the entire Mets package...



When will assclowns like Francessa and Kay realize, not everyone dreams of growing up and playing for the Yankees? A lot of people growing up HATING the Yankees.

I remember WAY BACK in HS, when I got recruited by Notre Dame (who I hate almost as much as the Yankees) I wouldn't even talk to the coaches. People don't all want to grow up to be Yankees!!!



I got a call from a Yankee fan friend after it happened, and he was ranting about how the Mets only got a piece of the Yankee scrap heap because the Yanks didn't want him.

I said that if the Yankees want to keep throwing us their garbage like Beltran and Santana, I'll take out the Yankee trash any day of the week.


http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/rumors/post/Mets-fans-should-thank-Cashman-for-Santana;_ylt=AsC00ArYmB5FIGmObelNVA6pu7YF?urn=mlb,64307

That headline makes me laugh and angry at the same time...

Sure, the Twins may have wanted to get some of the Yankees prospects but it was Johan Santana that wanted to go to the Mets.

In addition, just because the Twins went back to the Yankees doesn't mean that they could have put together the best package. Least I remind you the Mets held on to their 2 most sought after prospects - Martinez and Pelfrey. They played the Twins and it had nothing to do with the Yankees.

Face it, most Yankees fans are fair weather chumps who know very little about baseball.


you're going to take something klapish says as factual... he's a notorious "annonomous source" and no factual basis guy.

He's about a grounded in reality as Chris Russo...

Everyone knows Klapish hates the Mets and says anything he can to piss on them... true or not... he';s as credible as Wally Matthews





huh????

Johan would have gone to any of the 3 teams he wanted to get this over with, where is this "he didn't want to be a Yankee thing coming from???

And if thats true why did they call the Yankees for a last ditch effort?

Do you enjoy talking out your ass???

They called the Yankees to get someone else back in the bidding... doesn;t mean it was an "offer us Kennedy and Johan is yours.." call


Sorry guys, you can't tear this down for mets fans.

A Hughes package probably would have gotten him. Who cares?

And the idea that Kennedy, Melky, and a prospect - even Tabata/Montero/Bettances - is better than what they got from the Mets is absurd.


The only way a Hughes deal happens is if Santana agrees to go to the Yankees. They could have offered Derek Jeter but if Santana refused to go there, the deal wouldn't happen.



I don't understand why Mets fans are either bothered by Yankee fans saying this.

Like I said, remember when we heard the same rap from the Yanks when they apparently could have had Beltran but "didn't want him?"

Good for the franchise. How'd that work out?




In the context of the conversation, there was no Melky bashing. I said that Melky didn't have the same amount of potential as Gomez does, and I got a verbal Melky lashing

I like Melky, but he'll never be as good as Gomez could be



Well we as Newyorkers should embrace the fact that we will see the best Lefthander in his prime to play for a N.Y team since Guidry,Ford etc etc etc.

I'll be watching Sny every 4/5th day for Johan and pedro.....Not for the other 3 guys though.

Hey im excited that this town has another megastar.

Even if i tried to argue with any met fans about anything it would be impossible right now because everything that has happend from game 7 of the 2006 series to the Moment that Santana Signs that 6-7 year extension NEVER HAPPEND.

And by the end of May while the yankees once again start off slow (only to rebound again) The mets will once again be Kings of N.Y without winning a Title or two.

You've seen this act already.




If Gomez reaches his potential, Twins fans aren't going to hate this trade nearly as much

I'm rooting for him and Guerra to be stars, since they both can be nasty

Something you have to understand is that had the Yankees offered Hughes, the only thing the Mets could have countered with was Reyes. Trading Reyes would hurt us a lot more than trading Hughes would hurt the Yankees.

That said, we were two teams in different positions. The Mets needed Santana more than the Yankees. Honestly, I can't blame the Yankees for not wanting to trade Hughes or Jobba/Kennedy for Santana. While Santana is better than any of those young players (most likely now and going forward), you have to take into account that it wouldn't be THAT much of an upgrade, especially since they would have had to then pony up 20-25 mil to re-sign him long term.

Personally, IMHO if I were Brian Cashman.... I would've traded A-Rod at the deadline last year for prospects and a decent 3B. They could've easily gotten enough pieces to get Johan in that scenario without giving up Hughes.


Why is it so important for Yankee fans to point any of this out, even if it were true?

A) Is it that you need to feel better about not getting the guy that was seemingly gift wrapped for you?

B) Is it upsetting to some Yankee fans, that the Mets robbed the Twins and didn't have to give up either of their two best prospects while the Yankees had to include either Hughes or Kennedy, who are both better than anything we gave up, according to most?

Let me ask you this question and be honest - do you think it might be possible that the Twins wanted more from either then Yankees or Red Sox, in order to keep him in the AL? Is it fair to say that the Twins wanted to be overwhelmed by the Yankees and Sox, but merely satisfied by the Mets offer? If so, I can understand why you'd be pissed that we got him and you didn't. I totally understand.

It's funny that the Mets always have to be the 2nd choice New York team. It's funny that that story is always put out there, when we get the big guy and the Yankees don't. It's very funny to me.

PhilipHughesAce wrote:

Fact = If the Red Sox or Yankees wanted Santana they would have him.


Disagree, here's why.

Mets:We'll add Reyes to our initial offer.

What do the Yankees/Sox counter with?

Mets: We'll add Wright/Heilman/Perez/Maine

The Mets had better chips this whole time, they were just chips the Mets were not willing to part with..... like the Yankees and Hughes.


Why is that wrong?

Yankees felt Hughes was untouchable. Fine. Yankees let the Mets get Santana.

If the Yankees got Santana, what's to stop the Met fan from saying "You're just lucky Omar would never part with Reyes" ?

And would that matter?

I'm ecstatic the Yankees and Red Sox gave up on getting Santana and didn't want to give up on their prospects, just like the Mets refused to give up on the absolute best player rumored. But it's ridiculous that any newspaper outlet or Yankee fan tries to paint the fact that Omar was brilliant enough to read all the hands and wait this out till the point that he could absolutely steal Johan Santana as a negative.

You can say how insecure the backlash makes Met fans seem all you want, but the truth of the matter is that this is an attempt (by the media, not necessarily you guys) to take one last shot at the Mets.


Was Hughes EVER on the table in the Santana talks? I heard on the radio today that Cashman and Hal said he was never available..... and they called Hughes' agent telling him he wasn't being dealt. Am I missing something?

I do think that had the Yankees offered Hughes, the only thing the Mets could have done is add Reyes (something that was never going to happen)

No, when you report that the Mets were the last one standing when the Yankees and Red Sox backed off and wanted to keep your prospects, that's being neutral.

When you write an article saying that Mets fans need to thank Cashman more than Minaya for "letting the Mets have Santana," that's a shot at the Mets.




Mr. Idiot Steve Phillips was on Steve A. Smith show says The Yankees doesn't want Santana.Twins wasn't overwhelmed by Phil Hughes and never be good as Joba.


http://podloc.andohs.net/dloadTrack.mp3?prm=1642xhttp://espn-edge.andohs.net/0000A6/espnpod2/espnradio/sas/sas080130.mp3






It does have to do with this thread, because you sound unusually angry for a person who is glad that Johan is likely a Met. You know how obnoxious some Yankee folks can be. And though your motives might be true, and I believe they are, not all Yankee fans (or any fans) are as level-headed as you are. You've never been in this "little brother" position as far as I know, and it's not always easy knowing that there is always going to be a line of bullies trying to rain on your parade, constantly telling you that your team is inferior.

And finally, Buster Onley did release some quotes earlier today that suggested Santana wanted the Mets first. There's a thread about it out there somewhere. Does it say he wouldn't go to the Yankees? Not at all, and as far I could see, Ralf didn't either. He may have posed it as a question, but he never stated it as a fact. I think that you took it there.

In any case, this will not be the last wasteful discussion Michael Kay and his ilk will inspire - not by a long shot.


No, what I am saying is that if the Yankees or Red Sox would have made a good offer he would be a Yankee or a Red Sox, which is why he went back for one last try...

Why the hell would you trade Wright, Reyes Maine and fernando for Santana that would be a terrible trade.






FACT = Twins Gm overplayed his attempt at a Yankee/Red Sox bidding war, Theo and Cashman stopped that shit...

He tried one last ditched efforet and failed again...

You got Johan good for you I couldn't be happier to see him go to the NL.



I actually asked him (pha) about whether or not he was happy about the Santana development. He was. So am I. Yankees don't have to face him. He's not on the Red Sox. The Yankees don't have to yield their prospects. Granted, I would have loved to see Johan on the Yankees as he's the best pitcher in the game, but if he wasn't going to the Yankees I'd like him on the Mets it's the best for the Yankees that way.

If I were a Met fan I could care less as to the circumstances that led to the Mets getting Johan Santana. But it seems some here (some, not most by any stretch) feel the need to always be pissed about something, even after such a huge steal.


I'll never understand why people look for negitive shit.
Fuck what anybody has to say about what prospects and quality of them you gave up.

you got Johan Fucking Santana.

But Met fans take it to the extreme like a Insecure Grilfriend who hacks on her boyfiends Myspace everyday.

Ralf I mean its in basically every paper how the Yankees and Red Sox would not give in and you are coming from left field with this he ony wanted to be a Met theory....Lets be honest here you are sounding like a crazy person.


If I were a Met fan I could care less as to the circumstances that led to the Mets getting Johan Santana. But it seems some here (some, not most by any stretch) feel the need to always be pissed about something, even after such a huge steal.



Quote:
Fact: Santana wanted out. I've been told by people who know him that he longs to pitch in New York, for more money, a large Latin American community and a team he feels is determined to win a World Series in the near future.


http://www.startribune.com/sports/twins/14848406.html

Quote:
"The Mets are not only getting a Cy Young winner," Hunter said, "but an absolute bulldog who?s great in the clubhouse. He's going to dominate that league. They're going to absolutely love him in New York."

"I know he's happy, too, because he really wanted to go to the Mets. He's always wanted to swing the wood. He can hit.

"So I don't know who's happier, Johan, the Mets, or everyone in the American League because they don't have to face him anymore."


Where is this Santana refusing to go the Yankees thing you are getting???? Can I see the quotes and/or article??? God damn...

Sure, the Twins may have wanted to get some of the Yankees prospects but it was Johan Santana that wanted to go to the Mets.

In addition, just because the Twins went back to the Yankees doesn't mean that they could have put together the best package. Least I remind you the Mets held on to their 2 most sought after prospects - Martinez and Pelfrey. They played the Twins and it had nothing to do with the Yankees.

Face it, most Yankees fans are fair weather chumps who know very little about baseball.



Ralf wrote:
Ass wipe, there is no way of you knowing that for sure. Again, Bill James even hinted that Santana was steering this deal to the Mets.


lol....ok

So they went back to the Red Sox and Yankees before they made the deal with the Mets even though Santana said " I ONLY GO TO THE METS"

sure buddy I think your reading into Bill James a little to much...

Fact = If the Red Sox or Yankees wanted Santana they would have him



And Hal for shutting down his bitch for a brother


Once again... the one thing that keeps getting left out...SANTANA wanted the METS!!! and that, greater than all other factors is why he's a Met.

Cashman could have offered Hughes, Joba and Kennedy and if Johan didnt want to be a Yankee, which seemingly was not his 1st or 2nd choice (apparently Boston was 2) it wouldnt matter


He was accepting a trade to all three teams. He would have liked to go to the Mets first, but whether he was traded to either Boston, the Yankees, or the Mets, he was waiving the NTC if he got his massive extension. He is a Met because the Twins grossly overplayed their hand with the Yankees and Red Sox, not noting that there is a shift in philosophy amongst both of those teams. They then got hosed by the Mets, good for the Mets.

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Re: The same ESPN that called nathan a failed starter with a tir

Post  RedMagma on Wed Jan 30, 2008 7:56 pm

One more thing before I leave for the day....Two clips from ESPN talking about Johan....

Keith Law =

Santana is not without his red flags; he stumbled to the finish in 2007 and in the past has had elbow chips, a problem that tends to recur. He's become more flyball-oriented recently, leading to a big spike in his home run rate this year; the acquisition could encourage the Citi Field architects to push the fences back a few feet. And the days of him shouldering 230-240 innings a year may be behind him, although facing the pitcher two or three times a game may help him recover some of the lost workload.

Rob Neyer =

The one note of caution for the Mets is the fact that he took a step backward last season, with a record of 15-13 and an earned run average of 3.33, and seemed to struggle after a standout game Aug. 19 in which he struck out 17 Texas Rangers in eight innings. Over his final seven starts, Santana went 2-4 with a 5.11 E.R.A., raising some questions as to whether he was hurt.

The physical exam by the Mets will address such concerns, although the Mets might not feel fully relaxed about their investment until Santana truly demonstrates he is healthy by pitching effectively in spring training.


Just something to think about....see you guys tomorrow.




Oh Nudgy, Ive already listed TONS of examples of SP's that lead the league in innings over a 4 year span, then break down.

05-02 = Buehrle
06-03 = Zito
07-04 = Santana

All three SP's led the league in innings over a 4 year span ( between 900-1000 innings ), all three SP's were under 30, all three SP's are lefties...the 1st two broke down the following year and aren’t even a shell of what they were the previous 4 years.

Think the Giants didnt love getting a 28 year old LHP in Barry Zito?

Think the Card didnt love love getting a 27 year old LHP in Mark Mulder?

Just because they are under under 30 doesnt make them automatic.

Also, Santana in 2001 had elbow surgery to repair ligament damage. In 2003 he had elbow surgery to remove bone chips. Are you going to say that Johan Santana is going to keep up this pace of leading the entire league in innings over 7-8 more years? That he will be as dominate 7 years from now as he was last year ( which was his worst year since he became a full time starter )? Do you honestly believe that he can hit any of these marks without suffering another elbow injury? Are those injuries all in the past? Are you sure? Are you so sure that you will give him 30M a year and send your youngest SP and youngest position player packing? Are you so sure??? Did Grandpa Nudge come back from the future to give you the Sports Almanac between 2008-2020? If so I would love to see it...

Again, Im not saying my view is 100% right, Ive already stated there is more risk on my end, what makes me scratch my head is that you wont even entertain the idea that what the Yanks did was the right move. Will you not have fun rooting for the young guys, to see them develop under our watch? To have the possibility of having a true 300 game winner, a real one what we made..not just purchased after they already had 250? The Yanks only have 2 SP’s, JUST 2 in their storied history that have 200 wins as a Yankee, none with 300. Maybe JUST MAYBE we have one here under our nose. Did anyone think Johan was going to be this great at 21? He was a rule 5 draft player for Christ sake, given away by the Astros AND the Marlins? Did anyone think Josh Beckett would win a WS at 23? Or Dontrell Willis at 21? Did anyone know Jake Peavy, Chris Carpenter, Brandon Webb or countless others would be great 5-7 years ago? No, nobody could predict such things. Just remember 5-10 years from now the aces of this league will be the noname “prospects” from today. Are you so scared of failure that you need the sure thing, that players have to prove themselves before coming here? Guilty until proven innocent? Im not, Ive seen too many “sure things”, right side of 30 or not, melt in the big lights of the big city. We have a chance for a new dynasty, maybe that means not making the playoffs in 08 or 09, wouldn’t you do that to have a real shot at another WS instead of just making it to the playoffs and failing again and again. I could care less about the next two years, the same method has not worked over the past 7 years. How about a different approach? Don’t be scared Nudge, not making the playoffs wouldn’t be that big of a deal. I guess we'll have to act like the rest of the fans of baseball....keep hope alive and see what happens...no guarantees. Worked out well for the Sox who missed the playoffs last year.





Dru,
As you know, I was flip-flopping on including Hughes in the Santana deal, but leaned more toward doing the trade than not, while most of you were against it, but I think we've found common ground when we agree that passing up a trade of Kennedy, Melky and a prospect for Santana was a mistake. Imagine this rotation:

Santana
Wang
Pettitte
Hughes
Joba

Oh man!!! That would have been nice. Well, now that Santana is gone and the Yanks won't be worrying about him and we agree that passing up that last rumored deal was a mistake, I'm going to try not to discuss Santana any longer, or I'll stay out of other discussions on him. The caveat being this will all start all over again if he doesn't sign w/ the Mets. Smile




HYD,

You are sooooo wrong. The example is not using the Yankee name to merchandise, it is stating a fact. Having the Yankees as the centerpiece to attract buyers and market the event that is a creation of MAB and is a promotional activity requires the legal permission of the entity that is being used to attract the prospective attendees.

You are speaking with someone who has intimate experience in this area so trust me to tell you that you don't have a clue as to what you are talking about. I deal with our legal department on a constant basis in regards to advertisements, publications, trade shows etc. The hoops I've had to jump through for approvals from third parties are startling. The Yankee name is ther #1 asset that they protect at all times.

I once had to have an Ad removed because a trucker objected because the serial number was visible on the flatbed of his truck.





Peter,

Boston already has a championship team, the Yanks are trying to get one. But if standing pat with the same hand you lost with last year and expecting a different result is "the right thing to do" then don't be surprised or disappointed if the results are the same. Im sure the opposition aren't saying "damn the Yanks passed on Santana".





Jim A.: I understand your point about Tex, which is why I disclaimed my theory as stating the Yankees would not sign an FAs for my posting. I indicated I could be/would be in agreement with potentially signing Nathan, Sabathia, and Tex next year (facts and cirumstances pending my real time opinion on all three). So, I get what you're saying and I agree, but I was trying to defend paying for prospects if they perform. If they perform, there is no need to sign anyone.

Nudge: Holding an event is NOT merchandising. I can go on EBAY and legally title an autographed Robinson Cano ball from my collection as, "Robinson Cano - Second Basemen of the New York Yankees - Autographed Baseball" without the consent, approval, or knowledge of the Yankees. Completely legal. So, an event was held titled Yankee Pride. The advertisements for the event stated that former Yankees from the 1998 World Series team would be in attendance signing autographs. FORMER YANKEES! So, get the point (for once, since you've missed mine and DRU's), admit you're wrong, and move on. It's pretty simple.

Additionally, regarding the lottery ticket scenario:

I'll go out on a limb and say that Hughes will out perform Santana in at least 2 of the next 5 years and he will cost approximately 1/4 of the deal that Santana is about to get. Throw in the contributions of Melky (as opposed to Damon in center or having signed a FA that could potentially have hurt the development of AJAX/Tabata) and two additional prospects and I don't see it as much of a lottery ticket. In fact, I'm willing to say at most, Santana wins 2 more Cy Youngs (mainly because he's in the NL). And best of all, it sends a message. The Yanks can surprise you.



Mr. Idiot Steve Phillips was on Steve A. Smith show says The Yankees doesn't want Santana.Twins wasn't overwhelmed by Phil Hughes and never be good as Joba.


http://podloc.andohs.net/dloadTrack.mp3?pr...s/sas080130.mp3

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Re: The same ESPN that called nathan a failed starter with a tir

Post  RedMagma on Wed Jan 30, 2008 8:00 pm

FTballfan58:

"No Way Ellsbury was On-The-Table For Real"....

I reiterate:
For the record:

Ellsbury was never "Truly On The Table".... Bank on it that if the TWINS said "Ok, to Ellsbury, Lowrie & Masterson" the Red Sox would've pull out on the deal.

Ellsury's name was simply strategy....to see how much the Yanks would put-up and forfeit. Ellsbury up'd the ante.
The real Red Sox deal would've been Lester, Crisp, Lowrie & Masterson.
No way Ellsbury was going anywhere or there would've been rioting in Boston's streets !!
Ellsbury has "star" written all over him....and there is "NO WAY" he was budging from Boston' CF spot !!

I am just frankly surprised the TWINS didn't take the Yanks deal....The Yanks need PITCHING !!
I am glad that we (RED SOX) didn't forfeit anyone for a "declining" Santana.
NewEnglander4life1 This user has a blog
1/30/2008
5:47 PM (report inappropriate content)

PLEASE! Enough already! Are you not aware that there are 300 million other Americans besides NY and Boston! We'd really like to see a little attention given to other teams. Are you not aware the St. Louis Cardinals are the second most successful baseball franchise!!! They also have the best player in baseball.....

Relax! They were talking to each other bout the Sox and Yanks. Don't read it if you don't like it. Calm down.
TrampTrader
1/30/2008
5:45 PM (report inappropriate content)

Ahh Yes, who can forget the 1986 season.....the Mets had Mookie Wilson and 4 (FOUR), 15 game winning pitchers....The Red Sox had Bill Buckner on 1st base. We never saw that one coming. Truly that was one for the history books !
NewEnglander4life1 This user has a blog
1/30/2008
5:44 PM (report inappropriate content)

So many people saying J. Santana is best SP in baseball.I disagree. ROY HALLIDAY IS !!!

Roy IS great, I will give you that. But he's not the best...sorry. I am not trash-talking here, but he isn't even in the top 5 in the majors. Don't get me wrong, I wish he was on the Red Sox, but Santana is the best. I hate to admit it, cause I love Beckett. Beckett will be the best in the years to come.
braddock
1/30/2008
5:43 PM (report inappropriate content)

PLEASE! Enough already! Are you not aware that there are 300 million other Americans besides NY and Boston! We'd really like to see a little attention given to other teams. Are you not aware the St. Louis Cardinals are the second most successful baseball franchise!!! They also have the best player in baseball.....
PunkyCanada This user has posted to their blog within the last day
1/30/2008
5:42 PM (report inappropriate content)

So many people saying J. Santana is best SP in baseball.I disagree. ROY HALLIDAY IS !!!
RedSoxTrue This user has a blog
1/30/2008
5:39 PM (report inappropriate content)

Red Sox vs Tigers 2008 ALCS....
Red Sox in 6 !!

Red Sox vs Mets WS ('86 Rematch)
Red Sox in 5 !!
NewEnglander4life1 This user has a blog
1/30/2008
5:36 PM (report inappropriate content)

Screw Santana. GO TIGERS and gut the A.L. NO ONE will beat the Tigers this year, NO ONE.


And this is coming from someone with diamondbacks in their user name? So if the Tigers and dbacks meet in WS, the Tigers crush the dbacks? Where's your loyalty?
RedSoxTrue This user has a blog
1/30/2008
5:36 PM (report inappropriate content)

YankeeRay:

Your Post @ 5:26pm - "WELL SAID"....

Cheers....to "The Rivalry" !!

Yanks are Rebuilding....but Yanks & Red Sox have the Formula figured out.
It's gonna be some great baseball ahead !!
quickturn This user has a blog
1/30/2008
5:31 PM (report inappropriate content)

prediction Mets and Tiger world series

Mets in 5
TrampTrader
1/30/2008
5:31 PM (report inappropriate content)

This article raises a valid point. If the Yanks are to compete with the Red Sox, the Indians & the Tigers, they are going to need much better pitching than they have right now. Santana would have been a huge help to their staff. But they would also still have needed another quality starter plus another middle reliever. Mussina, Pettitte, and Farnsworth are truly not strong enough. And by the way, how long are the Yanks going to continue paying for the wasted Carl Pavano ? WAKE UP YANKS ! PITCHING, PITCHING and more PITCHING !
YANKEESREDSKINSFAN
1/30/2008
5:30 PM (report inappropriate content)

I remember before last season every team that was involved in trade talks w/the Yankees wanted Phil Hughes included. At the time he was the #1 pitching prospect in the minors. I also remember Cashman saying that he wouldn't trade Phil Hughes for anyone in the majors. I'm glad Cashman stuck w/ the young gun, he's 7yrs younger than Santana and has the potential to be just as domanant. Santana will give you 16-19 wins but so will Phil Hughes and he can do it for the next 15-16 yrs.
RedSoxTrue This user has a blog
1/30/2008
5:30 PM (report inappropriate content)

YankeeRay:

Sorry....I was away for a bit.

I agree; the Rivalry is alive and well., and '08 will be a great Yanks/Red Sox season. I also do admit....the Rivalry is BEST when both sides have the HOT talent....and '08 proves to be that time.
Yanks are stacked., I still think your starting pitching is a bit shaky., but the Rivalry looks like it's gonna be GREAT., as GREAT as ever.

And I appreciate the hat tip on the Red Sox '04 and "earning '07" from you.
A True Fan....acknlowleding.
Thanks....and TOAST: "To A Great Season ForthComing....Long Live The Rivalry".
quickturn This user has a blog
1/30/2008
5:29 PM (report inappropriate content)

dbackforever very intelligent comment
SlackerNYC
1/30/2008
5:28 PM (report inappropriate content)

I am a Met fan and I think this is a good break for the Mets, considering what they went through in last September’s Melt down. I don’t think they gave up too much for him and Santana is well worth the money the Mets will give him (At least 20 Million a year) I don’t think there is anything wrong with Boston or Yankees not pushing to hard for Santana, they are sticking with their young guns, they are both still contending teams with out Santana.
quickturn This user has a blog
1/30/2008
5:28 PM (report inappropriate content)

Minnesota had to trade to the NL could you umagine him coming to minnie for a weekend with a 14 and 2 record as a visitor while the Twins are BLEEP ing wind.

Minnesota is now officially the marlins of the AL
dbackforever
1/30/2008
5:28 PM (report inappropriate content)

Screw Santana. GO TIGERS and gut the A.L. NO ONE will beat the Tigers this year, NO ONE.
YankeeRay This user has a blog
1/30/2008
5:26 PM (report inappropriate content)

This Yankee fan is not obsessed with winning a world series this year.Shocking isn't it? Not many of us think that way.They might get there if,IF,the young'uns develop quickly enough.But the Sox are formidable and last year they really earned their chamiponship.I calls 'em like I sees 'em.But the Yankees are in a much better position now than they were in the early 90's.Remember,they finished the '90 season in LAST PLACE! So they are doing a partial rebuilding now and need time to finish the job.Patience will be rewarded with a great team that will be strong for years to come.A team of homegrown guys fans in BOTH towns can really call their own.Because the Sox are not standing still in the youth movement either.For a long time now the winners of the world series have usually been dominated by younger,lesser known players.Josh Beckett was not yet a big star when the Marlins beat the Yankees.And the Yankees of the 90's were not yet considered superstars when they were winning world series.The advantages the Yankees and the Sox have over the Marlins are payrolls that can afford to KEEP their stars.That,and the development of new talent is where the lion's share of a teams' money should go if they want to win championships AND compete for a long time to come.I think both the Yankees and the Sox have finally figured that out.That's good for the teams,for the fans and for baseball itself.
quickturn This user has a blog
1/30/2008
5:26 PM (report inappropriate content)

As a met fan I have been waiting all off season for omar to do something.
The Yankees have great prospects are should keep them. It was a good move for the yankees staying put.
For the Mets we got rid of glavine and sent him back home to Atlanta and replaced that over the hill pitcher wuth a couple of cy youngs
promichael
1/30/2008
5:26 PM (report inappropriate content)

The Yankees did the correct thing to hold on to not only their center fielder but both Hughes and Kennedy who will both help the yankees in 2008 as starters. The Twins GM was trying to smoke either the Yankees or the Red Sox. It did not work. Why did the Twins settle for so little in the final deal? This writer Rosenberg has no clue what he is talking about. Good job Brian Cashman for holding on to two pitchers who will be stars some day. Santana has to many miles on that arm.

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Re: The same ESPN that called nathan a failed starter with a tir

Post  RedMagma on Wed Jan 30, 2008 8:01 pm

Sunsarehotspursarenot
1/30/2008
6:07 PM (report inappropriate content)

so whats up???
nyy78916
1/30/2008
6:06 PM (report inappropriate content)

DAMN Yankees! Scorned if they try to get the "best" pitcher in baseball and then scorned when they don't.

Let's give them a little credit for controlling the spending machine! Give them some credit for keeping the young pitching prospects and home grown talent. One day they too will be "true Yankees" and the World Series pennant will fly over
Yankees Stadium once again!
Sunsarehotspursarenot
1/30/2008
6:05 PM (report inappropriate content)

mets
Sunsarehotspursarenot
1/30/2008
6:03 PM (report inappropriate content)

who wants pie
NewEnglander4life1 This user has a blog
1/30/2008
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NewEnglander4life1:

I like that....

TOAST: To A Great 2008 !!

RedSoxTrue: Cheers brother! I am raising my Sammie Adams Boston Ale as we speak! Let's Go Red Sox!
Sunsarehotspursarenot
1/30/2008
6:02 PM (report inappropriate content)

hi
NewEnglander4life1 This user has a blog
1/30/2008
6:01 PM (report inappropriate content)

The Mets have what it takes. That collapse was inexcusable, but with their lineup, the rest of the NL is in trouble. The Tigers are going to be scary in the A. Then your ususal suspects also... the Red Sox and Yankees, and don't forget the Angels. Man, I can't wait for spring training.
RedSoxTrue This user has a blog
1/30/2008
6:01 PM (report inappropriate content)

YankeeRay:

Sorry....I was away for a bit.

I agree; the Rivalry is alive and well., and '08 will be a great Yanks/Red Sox season. I also do admit....the Rivalry is BEST when both sides have the HOT talent....and '08 proves to be that time.
Yanks are stacked., I still think your starting pitching is a bit shaky., but the Rivalry looks like it's gonna be GREAT., as GREAT as ever.

And I appreciate the hat tip on the Red Sox '04 and "earning '07" from you.
A True Fan....acknlowleding.
Thanks....and TOAST: "To A Great Season ForthComing....Long Live The Rivalry".
tinomac
1/30/2008
6:01 PM (report inappropriate content)

I thought the Yankees did offer Hughes and Cabrera,but the Twins also wanted Kennedy and the Yankees did not want give uo both Huges and Kennedy.
McCard
1/30/2008
6:01 PM (report inappropriate content)

You got to think the Twins did the right thing in unloading Hunter and Santana. They seem to have a knack for finding talent and how does anyone know the Mets aren't getting another Pedro in two years. Then what? Unlike the NFL you just can't cut underperforming players. Pro sports teams sign a player based on ability and proven talent, if they dont match the percieved talent as in the case of Giambi. Why should teams be locked into theses players and not be able to buy them out. Baseball seasons to go on for 6-8 months is a joke unless a more even payroll gap is established. A teams highest payroll can be no more than 100% of the lowest payroll team would be a start.
Sunsarehotspursarenot
1/30/2008
6:00 PM (report inappropriate content)

i am not a huge baseball fan but Mets rock
RedSoxTrue This user has a blog
1/30/2008
5:59 PM (report inappropriate content)

NewEnglander4life1:

I like that....

TOAST: To A Great 2008 !!
bobblehead0411
1/30/2008
5:59 PM (report inappropriate content)

Yanksrule - Santana's career BA is .258.
YankeeRay This user has a blog
1/30/2008
5:59 PM (report inappropriate content)

Well,I'm amazed to hear there are other team besides the Yanks and Red Sox.Maybe that's because all other rivalries,in all pro sports,pale in comparison.
If you don't know the heat of that rivalry you ain't in the kitchen.
NewEnglander4life1 This user has a blog
1/30/2008
5:58 PM (report inappropriate content)

Why the name calling? There is no need for that in these threads. Let's be civil people. This isn't the NFL threads where people get downright rude and nasty. C'mon now.
RedSoxTrue This user has a blog
1/30/2008
5:57 PM (report inappropriate content)

rwl702:

Take a breather....The big boys are talking.

In 2 minutes you have slammed at 2 seperate franchises already., while respective fans are debating their teams success potentil headed into '08....

Calm Down or Go To Bed...Does Your mother know you're up??
NewEnglander4life1 This user has a blog
1/30/2008
5:56 PM (report inappropriate content)

John Maine is alright! I like the Mets. I don't like what happened in 86. lol Any rival of the skanks is good in my book. My favorite saying is my 2 favorite teams are the Red Sox and anyone who plays the yanks. Now it is the Red Sox and Mets.
TrampTrader
1/30/2008
5:56 PM (report inappropriate content)

The Mets will need another quality starter to get back to the World Series. Their fielding however, is pretty solid. They have a good potential going.
rwl702
1/30/2008
5:54 PM (report inappropriate content)

RedSoxTrue:

your and idiot!
harrylime13
1/30/2008
5:53 PM (report inappropriate content)

Yankee Lime: The Twins wanted him out of the American League and left the best deals on the table. No Red Sox or Yankee to haunt them.

RedMagma

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Re: The same ESPN that called nathan a failed starter with a tir

Post  RedMagma on Wed Jan 30, 2008 8:02 pm

YANKEESREDSKINSFAN
1/30/2008
6:55 PM (report inappropriate content)

Yankeeray, I agree, we need good young starting pitching. Last year it was rare for Mussina to get out of the 5th inning. Clemens would be knocked out by the 3rd. We had the most overworked middle relief in baseball. If we can get 7 full innings out of our young starters we will be in good shape.
redwig15
1/30/2008
6:50 PM (report inappropriate content)

rosenberg you D-bag. not getting this aging, juiced up pitcher was the best thing to do. he woulda been a huge waste of cash. you are a moron
HeavyHitters28
1/30/2008
6:46 PM (report inappropriate content)

MR: Let's say the Yankees did lose A-Rod to another team when he opted out. You touch on the obvious loss of production from 3B, that goes without saying. However, who says A-Rod is only about putting numbers? The Yanks don't draw 4mil fans in attendance because they have or could have had Mike Lowell in the lineup. A-Rod brings in REVENUE, CASH, MONEY, DOE, HYPE, DINERO, DINERO, DINERO. The Yanks did what they had to do, keep their prospects. A+ article, big L.
BaseballBrain
1/30/2008
6:35 PM (report inappropriate content)

Micheal Rosenberg, obviously your writing the article just to cause a stir. The Yankees don't need Santana. They needed the Red Sox to not get him. The Yankee stud pitching they have coming up will over take the Red Sox's for many years to come.
Mollie's Realm
1/30/2008
6:33 PM (report inappropriate content)

tears, tears and more tears, give me a break. Yanks will choke in the end..Alex R pleeease just don't stand there SWING...
I used to be a Yankie fan. but I'm a Texas gal and still hoping that someday the Astros will win it all! and wouldn't it be funny if it was against the Yanks!!!
anyway, Good job Mets!!!
Sunsarehotspursarenot
1/30/2008
6:32 PM (report inappropriate content)

yankee- whatever happened to Jabba and Pettite. Jabba will become a famer. He is amazing. 100 mph as rookie.Yup. Pettit is out soon.heart- rwl702 is right. THe metsr obviously fillin on Latinos . tradin lasting millage? No way that is wrong. G2G
Sunsarehotspursarenot
1/30/2008
6:27 PM (report inappropriate content)

anyone here?
heartlandhoward
1/30/2008
6:27 PM (report inappropriate content)

rwl702....I don't think the Mets have nearly as long a way to go as you say (at least to rise to the top of the NL). If they were in the American League, I'd agree with you, but in the National League of today, the addition of Santana definitely has to make them the favorite for the NL pennant. Even if Santana slips a little, he will still likely be one the best pitchers in the NL because the offenses he'll be facing have pitchers instead of designated hitters (and many other weak-hitting position players as well). Even with the bottom-dwellers of the AL East, Tampa Bay and Baltimore, the one thing they can undeniably do is score runs - as the Yankees found out the hard way last year. Anyone want to say the same thing about Washington and Florida? Other than Colorado, what NL West team this year figures to be an offensive powerhouse? And the NL Central? PUHLEEZE! Let's face it, unlike in the AL, it likely won't take a behemoth to capture the NL flag this year, not in a league in which last year's pennant winner topped out at 90 regular-season wins. If the Mets aren't irreparably traumatized by their collapse of last year, with the addition of Santana, it would be hard to pick against them as the favorite for the NL pennant.
Sunsarehotspursarenot
1/30/2008
6:25 PM (report inappropriate content)

yankee ray- that was way too long
YankeeRay This user has a blog
1/30/2008
6:20 PM (report inappropriate content)

"The Yankees need pitching"
Well,actually they need pitchers who can fill specific roles.They need relief pitchingas well as starters.But everybody here is focused on startters because of the Santana deal.So,what the Yankees DO have are very strong #2 and #3 starters in Chien and Pettite.I don't think anybody would argue with that.
They need an ace.Because his stuff is so overpowering the most obvious candidate is Chamberlain.That is WHEN they insert him in the rotation.But he looks fully qualified to be the best young pitcher in New York since Dwight Gooden.As for Hughes he remains an unknown quantity.He looked awesome when he came up,got injured when he was struck by a batted ball and was ok in the second half.He seemed to get stronger towards the end and had a good outing in the playoffs.He might become the ace so many expect but he's at least a very good #3 or #4 starter.That leaves Kenndey or perhaps later this year Alan Horne who's also very highly rated.Kennedy is not over powering.He's the oldest of the bunch and has more poise and patience.He's demonstrated he can overcome a rocky start and finish a game strong.He looks like a very solid #4 or #5 pitcher.That's not a bad rotation but admittedly it rests on young ptchers who have yet to prove themselves over an entire season.But,on balance and keeping in mind the Yankees have other options within the system,their starting pitching is in pretty good shape.Sacrificing that balance and it's future PLUS the 22 year old starting center fielder for Santana would have been a very foolish move.Over the next two years the Yankees may very well develop the best young rotation in baseball.They are deep enough in young pitching to make up for those who don't pan out.
It's just gonna take a little patiience.
Sunsarehotspursarenot
1/30/2008
6:19 PM (report inappropriate content)

fehead- exactly
yankeesox
1/30/2008
6:19 PM (report inappropriate content)

GM really didnt blow it on the Santana deal, the Indians wanted too many young prospects from the Yanks team that the Yanks really could not afford to lose, and Santana is in the prime of his career, long term wouldnt have panned out like the Yankees would need.
fehead
1/30/2008
6:15 PM (report inappropriate content)

Who is Rosenberg to write such crap? another J-School idiot sportswriter!! STFU!!
melvin2
1/30/2008
6:11 PM (report inappropriate content)

funny, when they spend money it's bad.. now they don't and it's bad. Twins wanted to much from the Yanks and the Bosox, why did they settle for such a cheap deal?
Sunsarehotspursarenot
1/30/2008
6:11 PM (report inappropriate content)

Santana BELONGS WITH THE METS
rwl702
1/30/2008
6:10 PM (report inappropriate content)

RedSoxTrue:

you are such a looser!

Who has spent more time on the message bords today? you talking about new england sports, or your wife looking for a real man who doesnt spend all day and night talking about new england sports?
Sunsarehotspursarenot
1/30/2008
6:09 PM (report inappropriate content)

sunsarehot is the best person here
jesergent
1/30/2008
6:09 PM (report inappropriate content)

Santana is on the verge of becoming over the hill. His record last year was mediocre and he has elbow chips. He will become another David Brown or one of the other pitchers who lasted a year or two. The Yankees keep Philip Hughes who will be a star pitcher much longer than Santana, and Melky Cabrera, who is already a key player. Cashman made a great decision.
Sunsarehotspursarenot
1/30/2008
6:07 PM (report inappropriate content)

so whats up???
nyy78916
1/30/2008
6:06 PM (report inappropriate content)

DAMN Yankees! Scorned if they try to get the "best" pitcher in baseball and then scorned when they don't.

Let's give them a little credit for controlling the spending machine! Give them some credit for keeping the young pitching prospects and home grown talent. One day they too will be "true Yankees" and the World Series pennant will fly over
Yankees Stadium once again!

RedMagma

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Re: The same ESPN that called nathan a failed starter with a tir

Post  RedMagma on Wed Jan 30, 2008 8:02 pm

I agree Melky and Hughes alone is a much better package alone than the crap the Mets gave. They Yanks should have stayed with this one, but it is nothing to regret and Cashman is not to blame.
HHammer
1/30/2008
12:23 PM (report inappropriate content)

So wrong! The Yankees offered Hughes and Kennedy, two good young pitchers. The Twins declined. They also wanted Melky. The yanks simply could not give up two solid pitchers and a premier outfielder when they've been experiencing weakness in those positions for the last few years. The real losers here are the Twins, who got far less for Santana than they would have if they had dealt him to the Yankees. Cashman made the right move.
ChicoEsquala
1/30/2008
11:49 AM (report inappropriate content)

Baseball bin bery bery gud to him and to me.
810108 This user has a blog
1/30/2008
11:42 AM (report inappropriate content)

Could all turn out to be very true that Cashman missed the boat on this. Time will tell, though I think mortgaging the future (again) is riskier at this time for NYY. But my question is this - Why does this article come from a Detroit writer? Doesn't he have enough to speculate about with the Tigers? It would be more appropriate coming from a NY writer.
mamboitaliano
1/30/2008
11:31 AM (report inappropriate content)

Both the Yankees and the Red Sox made the best move by not moving at all. Both teams will be better for it.
Time will tell. I wonder if the Mets could sign Pedro again if the would?

RedMagma

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Re: The same ESPN that called nathan a failed starter with a tir

Post  RedMagma on Wed Jan 30, 2008 8:03 pm

12:35 PM (report inappropriate content)

I agree that the Yanks made the right move by not pulling the trigger. Their rumored offer in December was still the best one. It seems as though the Twins wanted him out of the American League. This guy should stick to writing about the Tigers.
jerkyboy11
1/30/2008
12:35 PM (report inappropriate content)

cashman is one of the best in the biz - but this was a joke, they gave santana up for unproven pitchers basically, none of whom i might add has played in a major league game! we should have given them some no names... they woulda taken it apparently...

and dont give me the one kid is a phenom.... yea he's proven himself in highschool....

lets get it together yanks!
originalslimshady
1/30/2008
12:35 PM (report inappropriate content)

The Yanks tend to wait until a pitcher is at the end of his career and then significantly over pay for them. Santana is still to young. Maybe next go around they will get him and pay him even more.
bowlingmomma0506
1/30/2008
12:35 PM (report inappropriate content)

Ok - so they bleeped me - i'll try again:

BOO HOO, BLEEP FOR THE YANKEES!!!!!!!!
SecondHand
1/30/2008
12:34 PM (report inappropriate content)

Omar ends up looking like a genius.
acadiaangelfan
1/30/2008
12:34 PM (report inappropriate content)

psycho - some people actually think about things on BOTH sides - yes Santana is good BUT $120 million plus Hughes plus Melky plus maybe Kennedy is too much. If he was a free-agent $120 may be okay but not in a trade. Look at the whole scenario, not that a team should just sign him. The Yankees are criticized for spending the dough and now for NOT spending the dough.
GuyMaster
1/30/2008
12:34 PM (report inappropriate content)

I'm a Yankee fan and glad they didn't get him. I'm all for the youth movement. He's better off with Los Metos. The Twins played hard ball with the Yankees and ended up getting a lousy package of Grade B & C prospects. They would have been better with at least Hughes or Melky or Lester from the Red Sox. Instead they outsmarted themselves and got fleeced.
NYfan1325
1/30/2008
12:34 PM (report inappropriate content)

Ok the moron who wrote this obviously has no idea what the Yankees plan is. Obviously they could have made a deal for Santana and bolstered their payroll to over a quarter of a billion but their NEW philosophy is growing their own talent, something which won them 4 world series rings in the 90's. Also, why is he trashing the Yankees? The Red Sox offered virtually the same deal as the Yankees, spend almost as much as the Yankees and the addition of Santana to them would have made them a dynasty for the next decade. Beckett, Santana, Dice-k and any two of their other quality starters would allow them to have the best rotation in baseball by a mile. The Red Sox refused to put Lester, who is not nearly as good as Hughes and Ellsbury together. Ellsbury is a huge upside prospect but he was barely there for 3 months if that. The real losers in this trade are the Red Sox.
On a side note: The Twins front office needs their heads checked. Why take the Met's offer? Their pitching prospects are suspect at best and Gomez, their "prized" outfielder is surrounded by talk that he hasn't proven he can hit major league pitching. The Twins failed to pry away almost any of the Met's top farm talent for arguably the best pitcher in baseball.
professorchaos
1/30/2008
12:32 PM (report inappropriate content)

Yes, the Yankees really blew it.

But why is Cashman to blame? He doesn't have the authority to make this kind of deal. All real power lies with George, Hank and Hal.

Cashman can't go to the bathroom without their permission.
RedbirdRuffian
1/30/2008
12:32 PM (report inappropriate content)

I agree wholeheartedly. Yankees are in love with their prospects, but seem to forget they are just that - prospects and unproven at the major league level. There is NO reason to believe that the three prospects in the Yankee rotation will be able to comete in upper echelon of the league. I would take the Rays top three over Hughes, Chamberlain and Kennedy. If come June and the Sox have a 15 game lead Cashman may be looking for a new job...
bowlingmomma0506
1/30/2008
12:32 PM (report inappropriate content)

BOO HOO, BLEEP S FOR THE YANKEES!!!!!!!!!!!!
CrackrwanaPolly
1/30/2008
12:31 PM (report inappropriate content)

Yeah,

Like their payroll isn't high enough. Good move. Red Stain fans, only 24 more to go.
Psycho_Ninja
1/30/2008
12:30 PM (report inappropriate content)

as a tiger fan, im glad the yankees didnt get him... and for anyone who says its a good thing they didnt... please stop it... he would help any teams rotation especially the yankees competing with boston...
yanksinmyblood
1/30/2008
12:30 PM (report inappropriate content)

Im glad the yanks didnt get him. And as long as Boston doesnt get him I could care less where he goes.
GUYINMI
1/30/2008
12:30 PM (report inappropriate content)

Mr. Rosenberg,

i totally DISAGREE with you. and i agree with MAMBOITALIANO says. Yanks and BoSox did not give up the future for lots of money. Santana is one of best pitchers (i would not say a BEST PITCHER but one of bests). he is great but he did not do well last year and there is NO guarantee for this coming year and beyond. plus, what if Huge develops quick and win 10 games in this year. he will be the one compete for CY young award every years in the future. do you think that is too much to pay for a SOON-TO-BE-30YR-OLD-PITCH
ER? i love Cashman's move and so as Theo's. plus, Yanks need CF. if Milkey is a part of the deal for Santana, Yanks have to fill out the position as well. once again, i like Cashman's move no matter how Santana does in 2008. remember! Cashman is one of the best GMs in this league. Great Job, Cashman!!!
gamerk2
1/30/2008
12:29 PM (report inappropriate content)

Please, the writer forgets to mention how the "other" owner (Hal) was deadset AGAINST santanna, mainly becuase he didn't want Jeter, Arod, and Santanna to cost about $75 Mil a year. Keep in mind, the Yankees also would have needed another pitcher in the deal to get santanna, as well.

The Yankees main concern was keeping Santanna away from the Sox (which seems to be the same thing the Sox were doing to the Yankees). Besides, we already know the stuff Joba has (looks like a young Clemmens), and Huges delivered once his hamstring healed. The Yankees made the right move by holding onto their talent.
acadiaangelfan
1/30/2008
12:29 PM (report inappropriate content)

Cashman did his best, the Twins are the ones that lost out. Hank or Hal also said they did want to spend $120-$140 million on Santana too. A-Rod is still the MVP of the team - did you actually see Santana's stats last year?? That is worth $120 mil? From what I saw I would have rather had Beckett than Santana. Now the Mets get to figure out how to pay the dough and how to make sure he is not on the down-side of his years. He is another potential Pedro waiting to happen injury-wise...worry about Dontrell won't you...
yanksinmyblood
1/30/2008
12:29 PM (report inappropriate content)

No way the best pitcher in baseball. Look at hi stats!!!! 3 good years and thats it.... slow down before its worth trading your whole young staff away.
ViciousChips This user has a blog
1/30/2008
12:28 PM (report inappropriate content)

The Yanks and the Sox are two of the best teams in sports for a reason. This "non move" will not hurt them. Yes Santana is a great pitcher now but with the crop of young arms both NY and Boston have - they can (and will) enjoy great pitching for years to come. Santana's shelf life would have been short if he continued to play in the A. League considering the longer innings, appearances and batters he'd contunue to face. As a Yankee fan I wasn't sold on trading the future plus Melky C. for Mr. Right Now.

This writer simply needed to meet a deadline with this "report" - the Yanks and Sox will share untold championships in the next several years while the Mets continue to "almost get there"
Psycho_Ninja
1/30/2008
12:25 PM (report inappropriate content)

how did the yankees screw that one up??? they couldnt offer anything better than the lowly mets have... a team that couldnt even make the playoffs??? wow...

RedMagma

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Re: The same ESPN that called nathan a failed starter with a tir

Post  RedMagma on Wed Jan 30, 2008 8:03 pm

r
1/30/2008
12:56 PM (report inappropriate content)

i find it hilarious that suddenly everyone belittles santana cuz he signed with the mets & not the skankees...all off season all the talk was about the yankees after him & how the fans were sweatin him & drooling waitin for him to take the mound in yankee stadium...

well folks, he will be, but for the cross town Mets Smile

and i also find it amusing how this writer referred to the mets as the cross-city, tabloid-headline-seeking rival Mets when in reality its the skankess who are always seeking the headlines no matter what sport is in season...don't hate just because cashman & the steinbrenners couldn't pull off the deal
funnymansam
1/30/2008
12:54 PM (report inappropriate content)

The Yankees can't win with you media people, it's always the same rant...The Yankees out spend everyone and try to buy the title or they keep their young players and refuse to spend 150mil on a pitcher and that's wrong as well....please come up with an original thought, this is getting old
GuyMaster
1/30/2008
12:54 PM (report inappropriate content)

pyscho...You know why I ask...remember we were on that tennis site and were razzing the tennis bloggers. Well the one dude made some funny references and one blogger reported him for inappropriate content and we could see the complaint right on the thread. I haven't seen his name since. I thought maybe that happened to you.
srv4everyanks This user has a blog
1/30/2008
12:52 PM (report inappropriate content)

Diminished(TYPO)
cacknbalzz
1/30/2008
12:51 PM (report inappropriate content)

Hey YamIaFinFan,

What team is it that won the '03, '04 and '07 Series? Have RedSux fans gotten so cocky, they're taking credit for games/series they weren't even involved in?
Despite a recent rash of Series wins, the RedSux are still the most classless organization 9next to those dirty cheaters in Foxboro).
CaptainAndy
1/30/2008
12:51 PM (report inappropriate content)

The Yanks and Sox did the right thing. Young players accounted for a very entertaining postseason this past season. Why dump all of that on one guy who has lost velocity and should have a major injury lurking by now? The Yanks built a dynasty with farm guys and role players. If these guys don't get it done then you can write this type of BS article. I hope Rosenblahblahblah eats this article for breakfast every morning this season.
SryDoggie
1/30/2008
12:50 PM (report inappropriate content)

Oh and by the by...Santana has won 20 games exactly ONCE in his career...ONCE...why is he god's gift again?
Dunbery
1/30/2008
12:49 PM (report inappropriate content)

Since when did Cashman pull any triggers...blame lies at the foot of the Steinbrenners.
SryDoggie
1/30/2008
12:48 PM (report inappropriate content)

The Yanks could care less about Santana going to the Mets. Anyone wanna put their kids college tuition on the Mets even MAKING IT to the World Series? I know I don't. The Yankees knew the Sox weren't in it to win so they let him slide out of the AL and out of their hair and saved $130 million in the process. The rotation will be young and strong and still have veteran leadership and they are banking on it proving to be World Series worthy in the next couple years. Anyone who thinks Cashman is on the line for THIS need only look back at what they've gotten so far in the "run out and get that ace" sweepstakes(Pavano, Clemens, Wright, etc.). Simply put, they don't REALLY NEED him, the Sox weren't after him sooooo...let him go.
srv4everyanks This user has a blog
1/30/2008
12:47 PM (report inappropriate content)

Although Rosenberg makes some good points, I hardly think this is truly Cashman's fault.He's merely the front man.You got Hank and Hal who have no idea what the BLEEP they want,and Cashman in the middle trying to do the right thing.He did succeed in rebuilding a diminidhed farm system which will be important int he years to come.And the Yankees were prepared to trade Hughes,they just felt the Twins wanted too much.
Is Michael Rosenberg cross eyed?
pldp19 This user has a blog
1/30/2008
12:47 PM (report inappropriate content)

baseball is a joke anyway;at least until the even the playing field and have a salary cap. just a lame sport when teams can't compete money wise. never watch baseball unless my midle of the $$$ team is in playoffs "Twins"
Jeff59 This user has a blog
1/30/2008
12:46 PM (report inappropriate content)

I agree with the Detroit guy. To compete with Boston the Yanks needed Santana. The Sox have Beckett and without him Red Sox Nation doesn't get past Cleveland. You've got to have an ace.

The Sox, for that matter, aren't a lock. Beckett has been injured before and if he goes down the Sox don't go anywhere. You can never have enough pitching.

The Twins wanted to get Morneau signed before they moved Santana. That part was fine, but they could have done better.
Psycho_Ninja
1/30/2008
12:43 PM (report inappropriate content)

guymaster, im not sure what happened but ya i got put in timeout... took me a while to figure out how to get back on here... BUT IM BACK NOW... no more timeout...
GuyMaster
1/30/2008
12:42 PM (report inappropriate content)

Hey Psycho...what happened to your handle? Did you get censored on that tennis site?
Psycho_Ninja
1/30/2008
12:41 PM (report inappropriate content)

acadia, hughes is unproven, melky is WAY over-rated and the jury is still out on kennedy... however santana is proven and would have been a real force to deal with for the red sox for years to come... 120 mil or not, you would have tied him up for years to come... you need to bolster up your rotation or the red sox will have your number for years to come... face it they blew it...
bowlingmomma0506
1/30/2008
12:39 PM (report inappropriate content)

AND THEIR FANS!!!!!!!!!!!
GuyMaster
1/30/2008
12:38 PM (report inappropriate content)

RedbirdRuffian...You'd take the Devi Rays top three pitchers over Hughes, Chamberlain & Kennedy? Well I'm glad you're not the GM. Stay in St Loooooeeeey!
SecondHand
1/30/2008
12:38 PM (report inappropriate content)

He's trashing the Yankees because Santana ending up on the Mets, who gave up nothing for him. I don't think George would have let this happen.
YamIaFinFan
1/30/2008
12:38 PM (report inappropriate content)

good pitcher, still not worth the $$$$. I say the Sox and Yanks did well to stay away from this one. They both have enough in the barn to get them to October, not worth 20 mil a year for them and what they would have to give up. But hey that's just my opinion and my teams won the '03, '04 and '07 series'
ndforever This user has a blog
1/30/2008
12:38 PM (report inappropriate content)

This idiotic obsession with who the Yankees could or could not have ! The sun will come up tomorrow if the Yankees miss getting another expensive player some moron reporter thinks they should have.

RedMagma

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Re: The same ESPN that called nathan a failed starter with a tir

Post  RedMagma on Wed Jan 30, 2008 8:04 pm

Rosenberg-You know nothing about Baseball, especially the Yankees. Cashman did a great job holding on to the talent they have. Hughs will become a dominant starter, and Melky will be a gold glover and wait until he starts hitting, he will be a Marque Centerfielder and than what will you say, oh Cashman got lucky. Santana won a lot games in a Div the was at best a 500 Div until 2 seasons ago, and what happened to him last year. The Twins know what they were doing getting rid of him now, the Mets made a good deal, he will be better in the National League. But Cashman did reall good by our team. You'll see. If he made a deal and Santana bombs, or gets injured, he becomes the worst GM in history, giving awau Hughs who wins the CY Young and Melky wins a batting title. Cashman did real good!!!
RVA
1The_Coach1
1/30/2008
1:09 PM (report inappropriate content)

AZDKER1431819
You really don't have a clue what you are talking about do you. The Twins contacted the Yankees in the last hours to ask for a trade package including Ian Kennedy. Yeah that sounds spiteful. The Yankees had the best offer on the table and the Twins blew it early by not taking it.
LSUisthebest
1/30/2008
1:08 PM (report inappropriate content)

Rosenberg ?? Zip it you fool.
GiantsFan123
1/30/2008
1:07 PM (report inappropriate content)

Rosenberg is an idiot. Yanks did offer Hughes and Cabrera, but withdrew when the Twins tried to string them along and play their offer against Boston. The Yankees' and both of the Boston's offers were much better than the Mets offer, Twin's just took the risk and their plan backfired.

For years everyone has criticized the Yankees for spending too much (I agree) and trying to build a team through free agency. I have no problem with Cashman keeping three talented young pitchers.
RealisticYankeesFan
1/30/2008
1:07 PM (report inappropriate content)

this is a lot of bull. Santana would have cost the Yanks AND the BoSox too much. it would have hurt them in the long run. aside from that, Santana is still the best pitcher in baseball, and my hat is off to the Mets for getting him for such a good price.
spike429
1/30/2008
1:06 PM (report inappropriate content)

At the end of the year let's see how many more wins Johan has than Hughes and decide who is the smart one. Cashman handled this perfect for us old line Yankee fans.
CowboyInCT
1/30/2008
1:05 PM (report inappropriate content)

watchr - There is a difference between couldn't and wouldn't.....The Yanks wouldn't do the deal when they saw what the Mets were going to give up....Heck they didn't even have to give up Pelfrey to get him...Meanwhiel both the Yanks and Sox were asked to give up much, much more....If you ask me, the Twins lost out on this one by waiting....And the Mets have Santana but no future....They gave up 4 of their 7 top prospects....Is it smart? We'll have to wait and see......
Bobobuey
1/30/2008
1:03 PM (report inappropriate content)

The twins took a lesser offer because either they are stupid (hope not), or they just didn't want Santana coming back to their new park for another AL team. Twins will always be on the verge of making playoffs but not making it in cause they wont spend on the best pitcher in baseball? Their fans should burn Smith in effigy. Imagine yankee or Bosox fans if their teams allowed a sure 18-20 game winner and playoff lock for 2 games in each series let slip through their fingers.
Psycho_Ninja
1/30/2008
1:03 PM (report inappropriate content)

guymaster, well that little f.ag must have complained or something, because next thing i know fox put me in timeout... i had to get a new name to get back in... whomever it was obviously cant take a fkn joke... they should be on the sesame street web site...
REDMAN429
1/30/2008
1:03 PM (report inappropriate content)

THE YANKEES MADE THE RIGHT MOVE HERE. THEY HAVE A BAD HISTORY OF TRADING OFF YOUNG TALENT FOR OLDER PLAYERS. HUGHES, KENNEDY, AND MELKYS ARE ALL IN THEIR EARLY 20'S AND SANTANA IS ALMOST 30 YEARS OLD, WHICH YES IS HIS PRIME BUT AS WE ALL KNOW AFTER 34 OR 35 THE ARM STRENGTH STARTS TO DIMINISH UNLESS YOU ARE A FREAK OF NATURE OR ON THE INFAMOUS JUICE. ONCE THAT HAPPENS, WITHOUT SANTANA HAVING A GOOD FASTBALL HIS GREAT SLIDER WILL NOT BE AS AFFECTIVE. DON'T GET ME WRONG SANTANA IS A GREAT PLAYER, BUT HE PROBABLY HAS 4 0R 5 GOOD YEARS AND THEN A FEW AVERAGE YEARS AFTER THAT. THE YANKEES ARE FINALLY THINKING WITH THEIR HEADS AND THINKING LONGEVITY, INSTEAD OF GETTING RID OF ALL OF OUR YOUNG TALENT TO WIN RIGHT NOW. AND MARK MY WORDS PHILLIP HUGHES WILL BE A STUD!
AZDKER1431819
1/30/2008
1:02 PM (report inappropriate content)

The Twins did this to spite the Yankshees.

Sounds like the Twins know how to build a winner from ground up.
CowboyInCT
1/30/2008
1:01 PM (report inappropriate content)

As a Yankee fan I am glad they didn't make this deal....True, Santana is IN his prime....Which means signing him to a 6 or 7 yr. deal at the money he wants means we could potentially witness him decline...Whereas Phil Hughes hasn't even entered his prime, costs less AND has the high ceiling potential to be as good if not better than Santana some day....This was a good move. Let the Mets mortgage their future instead of the Yanks being raped for talent for a change. And notice, I didn't see the Red Sox trumping any offers to get him either....
joey_NY
1/30/2008
1:01 PM (report inappropriate content)

who is this guy?

Johan's numbers last year lead the world to believe..that although good..he isn't untouchable.

Stick do your detroit free press BLEEP b a g
pigskinguru
1/30/2008
1:00 PM (report inappropriate content)

"Oh and by the by...Santana has won 20 games exactly ONCE in his career...ONCE...why is he god's gift again?"

Let's see given the anemic at times Twins offense (going 1-4 over 5 game stretch with giving up only 8 runs). On the run producing Yanks team he would flirt with 30 annually.

If you doubt Santana check the meaningful pitching stats. He is not number one accross the board in all of baseball over the last 4 years by accident. All of this in the AL too makes it all that more impressive.

When the Yanks get the league leader in wins, ERA whip or strikeouts let me know. I can say Hughes, Yanking my BLEEP and Chamberlain might get the wins because of insane run support but they are not touching the other key stats.
GrittyMcScruff
1/30/2008
1:00 PM (report inappropriate content)

Tough call. Remains to be seen. I think it takes more balls to stick with the young guys you developed than to buy the big name on the market. Could blow up in their/our face but I give the Yankees/Sox credit for sticking to their guns. Anyways, if the Yanks had traded for Santana, theyd be getting killed for that as well witht the old buy championship bla bla bla.
blown340
1/30/2008
12:59 PM (report inappropriate content)

Rosenberg is dead wrong,i applaud Yankees mannagement for not giving up all that young talent to acquire Santana,one of the smartest moves they've made in awhile..
AZDKER1431819
1/30/2008
12:59 PM (report inappropriate content)

GREAT ARTICLE......

Yankees blow more money than a h*ooker blows pipe and they can't even overspend right.

Red Sox fan is loving this........hehehe
Yankeesmaine
1/30/2008
12:58 PM (report inappropriate content)

Yeah, Santana would have been nice, but look what the Mets gave up. Peanuts compared to what both the Sox and the Yanks were willing to give up. The twins would have been better off with either one of those offers then what they got. As a Yankees fan, I'm O.k with going with the players they have now and see what develops. Maybe the Yanks are the Wildcard next year, but you can only go so long plugging in veteran Free agents. Good teams are built from within with a little help added. Santana would have been nice, but nuking the farm for him, no. His last 5 starts make me wonder if the Twins are trying to move him other then for financial reasons.
Cormac48
1/30/2008
12:58 PM (report inappropriate content)

Mike,

Maybe they should be a little red-faced but I don't believe to the extent of your article. Their's and the Bo'Sox package(s) were better than the Mets.
nyerinsd
1/30/2008
12:57 PM (report inappropriate content)

Yanks did offer hughes and cabrera plus others twins wanted kennedy thrown in.. that was their way of not shipping him to the yanks or the sox demand to much than dump him to a NL team where he cant hurt them

RedMagma

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Re: The same ESPN that called nathan a failed starter with a tir

Post  RedMagma on Wed Jan 30, 2008 8:07 pm

Cashman should have pulled the trigger for Santana


http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/7737068?forum_key=StoryComments&topic_key=7737068&page_no=16


by Michael Rosenberg




That the somebody else in question was the cross-city, tabloid-headline-seeking rival Mets?

That Hank Steinbrenner, who wanted Santana, will get increasingly agitated as Santana dominates the National League?

That you're in the last year of your contract?

The answer is ... none of the above. No, the worst part for Cashman is that people will claim he should have gotten Santana, and they will be right.

Cashman could have had Santana. He should have had Santana. And he might really, seriously regret this.

Johan Santana is the best pitcher in baseball. He is in his prime. He would have been well worth the price that Cashman would have had to pay, and here is why:

The Yankees, as you may have heard, spend a lot of money. Their 2007 payroll was $218.3 million. Some perspective: that is more than the combined payrolls of the Cleveland Indians, Arizona Diamondbacks and San Diego Padres. The Yankees will spend more on the left side of their infield than Florida or Tampa Bay will spend on their entire major-league rosters.

This is not another woe-is-baseball, why-do-the-Yankees-spend-so-much-and-can't-we-have-daytime-World-Series-games rant. It's their money. They can spend it.

My point is that that kind of cash can buy all sorts of goodies. It virtually ensures that the Yankees will have one of the best lineups in baseball every single year. It means they can take a $40 million mulligan on Carl Pavano. It allows the Yankees to sign a setup man for closer-type money.

But that money cannot give the Yankees the most valuable commodity in the sport: a true ace. Not just a No. 1 starter, but an elite No. 1 starter — a guy who contends for Cy Young Awards more often than not. There are only a few of them out there, and they rarely become available before they hit 30. Santana turns 29 in March.

Santana instantly would have been the most valuable player on the Yankees roster. Yes, more valuable than Alex Rodriguez, the best position player in the game. Here is why: if Rodriguez left the Yankees, they would at least have a shot at making up for his production by improving at other positions. If A-Rod had left as a free agent, the Yankees could have signed, say, Mike Lowell, then used the leftover cash to upgrade another position. It wouldn't have been ideal, but the Yankees could still put together a playoff-quality lineup that way.

But there is no way to replace a No. 1 starter. You can't just improve the rest of your pitching staff; it's not the same.

The Yankees should know this. The key to their 1996-2000 championship stretch was ... drumroll, please ... an abundance of TRUE YANKEES! No, I'm kidding. The key was great starting pitching and dominant relief pitching.

In last year's American League Division Series, nominal Yankees ace Chien-Ming Wang gave up 12 runs in 5.7 innings over two starts. That, more than the infamous midges or Derek Jeter's struggles, is what doomed the Yankees. Two miserable starts in a four-game series are almost impossible to overcome, especially against a great team.

Santana, meanwhile, has not give up 12 runs in any two-start span since April 2000.

Santana is also a proven postseason pitcher; in his last three starts, going back to 2004, he has a 1.35 ERA. Over his career, Santana's second-half numbers are significantly better than his first-half numbers.

And why did the Yankees withdraw from talks? Because they didn't want to trade Philip Hughes.

Now, odds are good that Hughes will turn into a consistent starter. He might be a top-of-the-rotation guy. But the chances of him being as great as Santana are extremely slim.

It would have been well worth it for the Yankees to use Hughes in a package to get Santana. It should have taken Cashman 0.004 seconds to throw in Melky Cabrera, a nice player who is quite replaceable. And since the Yankees' farm system is deeper than the Mets' by almost any measure, Cashman could have come up with a more attractive package than what the Mets offered.

Yeah, they would have paid Santana a lot of money — a lot more than Hughes or Kennedy would get. So what? They are the Yankees. Hank Steinbrenner washes his armpits with hundred-thousand-dollar bills. The benefits of having a very good, cheap, young player are diminished for a team with such a high payroll.

The Yankees are built to take their best shot at the World Series every single year. There is no better weapon in that quest than Johan Santana

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Re: The same ESPN that called nathan a failed starter with a tir

Post  RedMagma on Wed Jan 30, 2008 8:17 pm

Johan, Meet the Mets

I am happy.

I am filled with pure and utter glee.

It's not that I didn't want Johan Santana in pinstripes; it's that the price requested--at least one of the "Big Three" is much too high.

It's true, we don't know exactly how the Big Three are going to turn out, but it's a far worse crime to not give them a chance.

While I do think the Mets got the better end of the deal, I also think we're underrating the package that the Mets sent to Minnesota. Bill Smith is many things, but he's not stupid.

So congratulations to the New York Mets on a fine pick up, you got what you desperately needed (a pitcher), and the Yankees will hold onto their youth--and their future--for a little longer.

(sorry this took me so long to get up, I just got back from class!)

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Re: The same ESPN that called nathan a failed starter with a tir

Post  RedMagma on Wed Jan 30, 2008 8:20 pm

A couple of things that haven't been mentioned:

1) The Yankees are likely to have to face Santana once a year and possibly twice. The effect is probably negligible, but I like that NY has to face him and the Sox won't.

2) It is now more likely that the Wild Card will come from the AL Central. IMO, it would have been a little less likely if Minn had gotten one of the packages from the Sox or Yankees. That is bad news for the AL East runner-up. If Sea gets Bedard, the AL West runner-up will also be in the WC mix especially if Sexton bounces back.

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Re: The same ESPN that called nathan a failed starter with a tir

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