The great debate on CMW continues

Go down

The great debate on CMW continues

Post  Admin on Wed Dec 12, 2007 11:06 pm

The great debate on CMW continues

http://yankees.lhblogs.com/
Here is an e-mail I just received. It was, of course, anonymous:

Wang doesn’t strike anyone out and depends on the ridiculous number of groundballs he’s able to create being turned into outs. This is not a reliable strategy that will produce consistent results over a career. It is working in the short term, but as Bill James as pointed out in the past, no pitcher with a K/9 below the league average has gone on to have a meaningful career. He’s in no way in the same class as someone like Beckett and is most definitely not an ace. Unless he develops a legit strikeout pitch there will always be the risk that the groundballs get through and he’ll have bad starts. He can’t be counted on in the playoffs.

So, the 417.1 innings Wang has pitched the last two seasons are a short-term mirage. His going 38-13 is a sign of not having a reliable strategy. But the 5.2 poor innings he had in the playoffs, those are a sign that he can’t be counted on.

I think I got my first Bill James report in 1988 and I just received his 2008 Handbook in the mail. His approach is endlessly fascinating. But when the statheads like my anonymous friend leave no room for humanity is where they lose me.

Wang has made only 80 starts in his career, most with two pitches. I’ve stood there and watched him work on other pitches in the bullpen. I’ve talked to him at length about it. He knows people sit on his sinker. Did you know that his slider was his best pitch in college but the Yankees had him dump it when he had shoulder issues? Now he’s healthy and he’s working on it again. He also is doing a lot of work on a changeup.

This guy shows up every five days, he pitches deep into games and he has handled almost every big-game assignment with aplomb. Why people insist on running him down remains a mystery to me.

————

A few of my Taiwanese friends have told me that the blog is getting some play in Taiwan tonight. So hello to you guys and thanks for reading.

Admin
Admin

Posts : 1005
Join date : 2007-12-12

View user profile http://yankeeslegends.forumn.org

Back to top Go down

Re: The great debate on CMW continues

Post  Admin on Wed Dec 12, 2007 11:07 pm

# Stacey December 12th, 2007 at 8:19 pm

I like Wang. I’ll admit I was really pissed right after the Yanks were eliminated because I was at the last game and watched the horror in person. With that being said I still think he’s a good pitcher. He just had 2 crappy games at the worst possible time to have 2 crappy games.
# Jennifer - Save Phil Hughes! December 12th, 2007 at 8:19 pm

Hi everyone in Taiwan, for your friends in the USA.
# Born in da Bronx December 12th, 2007 at 8:23 pm

Hello Taiwan and Welcome to da Bronx. We love Wang. He puts it all out there, does not have an ego that constantly needs mending and he wins ball games.
# Motown Yankees Fan December 12th, 2007 at 8:24 pm

Pete - Thanks for the defense of CMW. For the past two years, whenever I see CMW’s name as the starting pitcher, I’m confident the Yankees will have a good game, lots of ground ball outs, the ever exciting (and I mean that) GIDP and maybe even some strikeouts. One of the most heartbreaking games ever was the Washington game in 2006 when I think it was Zimmerman hit that walk off in the ninth inning. One of the best moments was watching him smile and hug Guidry when he finally did get that complete game.

Sure statistics are general indications of generalities, but I’ve been watching the games. Chien Ming is a good pitcher and gives his team a chance to win every time he goes on the mound. It is clear he is a strong competitor and I have faith he will come back in 2008 even better. I was at game 4 of the Cleveland series and yes, he pitched poorly. I’m ready to attribute that to the screwy rest he had leading up to and during the post-season. He’s got more post-season wins in him; I know he has.
# EJ December 12th, 2007 at 8:26 pm

Um, did you even read the message, or did you read “Bill James” and just start writing?

“He’s in no way in the same class as someone like Beckett and is most definitely not an ace. Unless he develops a legit strikeout pitch there will always be the risk that the groundballs get through and he’ll have bad starts.”

His point is very clearly that Wang will never be at Beckett’s level, not that Wang is about to collapse and never be a good pitcher again.
# DVB December 12th, 2007 at 8:26 pm

ah-sk-roo Mr. Anonymous ! :-)
# Nick in SF December 12th, 2007 at 8:27 pm

Hello Yankee fans in Taiwan! I had the pleasure of visiting your island from Oct. 3-17, so I got to watch all of the Yankees playoff games there. Sad. One of these days I’ll get around to posting all my Chien-ming Wang-related pictures onto flickr or somewhere, I took a bunch.
# Jeff December 12th, 2007 at 8:27 pm

Beckett Palyoffs(sample size) = Dominated

Wang Playoffs(sample size) = Sucked

NY Media = We need an ace

This type of reactionary ******** is what made our fans boo the best player in game and almost run him out of town.

As well as almost give up the farm for Johan because the Mediots say we need an “ace” based on one playoff series.
# Mr. Vegas December 12th, 2007 at 8:28 pm

Whatever the validity of James’ studies of low-K-rate pitchers, that was NOT the issue with Wang during the 2007 playoffs. He wasn’t merely unlucky with ground balls finding holes in the infield. He was simply dreadful.
# DVB December 12th, 2007 at 8:28 pm

http://www.faketeams.com/story/2007/12/11/102631/04
.
I LIKE this proposition: Hughes, Melky and IGAWA for Santana…..THAT would be sweet !!!…
# Doreen December 12th, 2007 at 8:29 pm

Some people really don’t take the human aspect into consideration. Unfortunately there are too many people who are never going to “forgive” CMW for being the losing pitcher in the 2007 playoffs. It certainly was unfortunate for him to have 2 bad games in a row at a bad time, but it is no indication of the pitcher and person he is.

As far his his not being a strikeout pitcher, I started to enjoy watching his games for the “G’s” that would be put up for every groundout.
# Boston Dave December 12th, 2007 at 8:31 pm

Dodgers non-tendered LHP Mark Hendrickson.

Probably a long shot but he might be worth the Yanks trying him as a lefty specialist if he’s willing to make the transition. I’m not sure how much interest he’ll get but if he’s willing to sign a minor league deal it’s worth exploring.

lefties have a .699 OPS against him over the last 3 seasons (just .657 this past season).
# Boston Dave December 12th, 2007 at 8:34 pm

p.s. Wang is the man
# The Mighty C's December 12th, 2007 at 8:35 pm

Amazing how the same fans that are booing Wang over his 2 postseason games failures are the same ones who believe Hughes will be a bigger stud than Santana. so sad.

Wang’s been the best pitcher on the Yanks rotation for the past 2.5 years. Just wish Wang is more aggressive on the mound.
# Drew December 12th, 2007 at 8:35 pm

Bill James theories are pure garbage.
# Frank Marco December 12th, 2007 at 8:35 pm

People still puzzle me about Chien Ming Wang.

More wins than anyone in baseball since 2006….check
consistant….check
great era for american league east (or anywhere for that matter)….check

it all comes down too “Hey if a pitcher doesn’t strike people out, he sucks…..this is just plain wrong.
# ~Adam. December 12th, 2007 at 8:36 pm

This got “Breaking News” billing on ESPN.

Mitchell blames Players Union, and Owners. No real suprise here. Seems like it’s going to be the most benign document ever written. It’s already leaking? I wonder if Mitchell will actually try to take it to the UNion. Maybe this whole thing is really a hit on the Union. It must rub MLB the wrong way that the players’ union is SO strong. Probably the strongest union in America.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3152573
# Nick in SF December 12th, 2007 at 8:37 pm

Forgive Wang for his 2007 playoff performance?? I still haven’t forgiven Rivera for his 1997 playoff performance. Whatever happened to that guy anyway?
# Boston Dave December 12th, 2007 at 8:38 pm

Nick in SF is on fire tonight…
# Harsha December 12th, 2007 at 8:39 pm

Well lets all hope that our anonymous email writer’s boy-toy Beckett is in that Mitchell report. then we’ll see what kind of ace he really is
# ~Adam. December 12th, 2007 at 8:39 pm

Yeah, Wang rocks. I’ve always loved him. But in NY if you suck in the playoffs, you’re going to hear about it.

The debate about whether he’s and “ace” is fine. If he’s not an “ace” he’s the next best thing. I want him in my rotation, that’s all I know.
# Tell the Whole Story, Pete December 12th, 2007 at 8:40 pm

Pete,

Tell the whole story. Tell the people that you’ve got a whole lot of coin to be made if this guy does turn out to be an ace. Tell everyone how the book you wrote skews your perspective on Wang, because if he turns into a legit ace, a great story, you may have a chance at making some more money here, like you already have on the book in Taiwan. Could that have something to do with why you prop this guy and force him down your readers’ throats unlike any other player in a Yankee uniform? I’m sure you’ll condescendingly point out a variety of reasons this isn’t the case, but answer this yes or no - do you make money off of a book you wrote about CMW? Will you make more if he’s a Josh Beckett, or if he’s a forgettable #2.5 starter? Take your rose colors glasses off about a guy who has gotten lucky thus far, and be honest about your real interest in his success.
# Boston Dave December 12th, 2007 at 8:40 pm

can this be right?

Angels non-tendered third baseman Dallas McPherson.

isnt he still a pretty good prospect?
# rico December 12th, 2007 at 8:41 pm

I don’t care whether CMW is an “ace”. He isn’t Beckett. He isn’t Sabathia. So what. He is a young, strong, consistent starter who goes late into games and gives the Yankees a chance to win almost every start. It seems to me that, if the Yankees can go three years with Mo and Po at their career stages, they can go three with CMW at his.
# Rebecca--Optimist Prime--Save the Three Musketeers! December 12th, 2007 at 8:43 pm

Hello Taiwan
# Boston Dave December 12th, 2007 at 8:43 pm

if what Pete says is right, and Wang mixes in a slider and changeup…. who is to say he can’t be an ace??

if beckett only had one pitch he wouldn’t be dominant. its his curve that throws hitters off balance. if Wang gets an offpseed pitch down, watch out.
# Ray December 12th, 2007 at 8:44 pm

Wang missed the first month of the season with a hamstring injury & also broke his nail off on his pitching finger in August I believe. Even though he tried to glue it back it was still painful and caused some of his pitches to sail high. So he started slowly & ended in playoffs a bit off, but that happens. If he had been healthy at start & got 3 more starts he could have won say 2 of 3 & perhaps another 1 or 2 where he pitched while recovering and had 22 or 23 wins. Then he probably wins the CY young award.

Also, Wang was down to basically 2 pitches at end of year, because the split finger pitch would rip his nail off. But he throws 94 MPH 4 seam fastball & a 92 MPH split finger pitch that looks like a fastball as well as a slider. Wang had a terrific change up in Japan, but hasn’t used it much here.

So how many pitchers have 38 wins in their first 2 full seasons?? Sounds like an ace to me!

Wang is an ace.
# Doreen December 12th, 2007 at 8:45 pm

Pete, did you talk to CMW about his fingernail problem? Do you think they might come up with some way to reduce the chance of recurrence?
# Harsha December 12th, 2007 at 8:45 pm

Wasn’t dallas mcperson a top prospect liek 4 years ago?

Why do you people attack Pete for things he posts on HIS BLOG. Grow up. if you dont like his opinion, GO SOMEWHERE ELSE. he has the right to speak his mind, and in this particular case, his argument is rather convincing. He does not skew the truth about any of the stats/past performance issues he brings up. again, this is HIS BLOG. he has every right to write WHATEVER HE WANTS. leave him alone you trolls
# AJ December 12th, 2007 at 8:45 pm

Tell Mel Stottlemyre or Tommy John that you can’t be an ace with a sinker as your lead pitch. The kid has done nothing but win. I would suggst that he was put in a difficult postion by Joe Torre. First, by being asked to start on the road, when everyone knew his record was better at the Stadium. Then, going on 3 days rest? C’mon. Pettitte should have started game one against Cleveland- but I digress.
Two games don’t ruin two great seasons and if he does pick up a slider and change, he’ll only get better.

Admin
Admin

Posts : 1005
Join date : 2007-12-12

View user profile http://yankeeslegends.forumn.org

Back to top Go down

Re: The great debate on CMW continues

Post  Admin on Wed Dec 12, 2007 11:08 pm

[quote]
# The Fallen Phoenix December 12th, 2007 at 8:45 pm

Any self-declared “stathead” (and yes, I’d consider myself one) should also note that GB/FB ratios tend to be most stable from year-to-year for pitchers, even over K/9 and K/BB ratios. Chien-Ming Wang has had *extreme* GB/FB ratios these last two seasons, and I’ve read more than one glowing scouting report about Chien-Ming’s power sinking two-seamer (which he only learned in the minor league system, interestingly enough).

The point is, a strong GB/FB ratio can strongly offset low K/9 ratios, particularly if it’s accompanied by a particularly low BB/9 ratio (which Chien-Ming supplies). Granted, unless Chien-Ming *does* develop the ability to consistently strike people out, he will be at the mercy of luck more than most (a one-year spike in BABIP or a particularly atrocious infield defense behind him would be more damaging to him than a pitcher like Josh Beckett), but that doesn’t make him a bad pitcher, nor does it mean that Chien-Ming Wang will be unable to put together a string of successful seasons in the next few years.

It’s quite impressive that Chien-Ming has put together good seasons behind the not-so-hot defense of Derek Jeter at SS and (last year) Alex Rodriguez at 3B (though his defense was underrated last year due to all the flashy errors). Granted, he’s had one of the top defensive 2B in Robbie Cano to pick up the slack, and despite Jeter’s range limitations he turns a fine double play (which is doubly important for sinkerballers), but short of Chien-Ming failing to continue developing his slider and change and/or his two-seam sinker diminishing sharply (either by opposing hitters figuring it out, or if it loses some combination of velocity/movement), I see no reason why Chien-Ming cannot continue to enjoy the success of the last two seasons (where he was a top-15 starter in the AL, even if he didn’t turn out “dominating” top-5 performances day in and day out), and I speak as a “stathead”. Perhaps not an expert stathead, but I’d like to imagine one who’s versed enough to have some idea of what he’s talking about…
# Lucas December 12th, 2007 at 8:49 pm

I think there are two points that the anonymous poster was trying to make the first is that Wang is a historical anomaly because there has never been a pitcher who has been able to pitch like he does and succeed. His sample size is large enough to see that this is not a fluke, he is a good pitcher and is able to get outs over long term periods. The second point is that Wang should not be trusted in the playoffs, a point unfortunately I agree with. Wang due to his high ball in play nature is more prone to big innings, fielding mistakes, etc. and when Wang gets in a jam he cannot get the free outs that a big strike out pitcher can and is forced to try and get a double play. Even if Wang went 34-0 with a 2 ERA over his next 225 innings if he was averaging 4.7K/9 I would not feel comfortable with him pitching a must win game because of the uncertain nature of a ball in play.
# Tell the Whole Story, Pete December 12th, 2007 at 8:49 pm

I don’t care if he’s an ace either. My last post shouldn’t serve to bash the guy, but I realize it might seem that way. I think he’s a good pitcher whose luck started to catch up to him at the end of the season thus far. I also think that anyone who thinks the past two seasons are going to be indicative of the rest of his career is kidding himself; he’ll be good not great, never dominant. But why perpetually throw up the record? Anyone who wouldn’t straight trade Wang for Beckett is not suited to discuss the game. So why does Pete insist on holding them up on the same pedestal. He’s just not as good as Beckett. This is coming from someone who despises the Sox. I love the Yanks, and I love Wang, but I just think Pete’s constant comparison of Wang and Prototype Ace is a stretch made by someone with an interest in the guy’s success. Maybe if he’d written a Josh Phelps book, that guy woulda gotten a fairer shake from Pete too. I don’t begrudge the statements, it’s your blog, Pete, but make clear to everyone reading what you could have riding on this theoretical “Ace”.
# Fernando December 12th, 2007 at 8:50 pm

Thank You! That’s something that these Statheads don’t get. These arn’t robots you can’t try to explain everything with Stats. Players still go out and make pitches. Good tidbit on the slider information. There is so much that fans don’t get when it comes to stuff like that. People just assume he is garbage becase he had a bad playoffs. He’s not the sexy kind of pitcher people think of when they think “Ace”. The kid is solid!
# Bill December 12th, 2007 at 8:51 pm

I think there is a lot less controversy and disagreement about Wang then his defenders seem to think. The whole Ace/Not Ace disagreement seems to stem more from how people define an “ace” and not from the quality of Wang as a pitcher. I don’t see anyone saying that Wang isn’t a good pitcher, that he’s not one of the 28 best pitchers in baseball. I don’t see many claiming that he’s one of the top 3-5 pitchers in baseball either. He’s an extremely good pitcher. No one’s arguing about that.

Too much is being made of his playoff problems this year by his defenders. I think for the most part, those of us arguing that we need a more dominant number #1 have thought that for a long time. This is not about the Cleveland series. When is the last year that the Yankees won the World Series? I don’t think its merely bad luck. In the regular season, your number 1 starter really isn’t that much more important than any of the other 4 starters. Having a deep 5 man rotation is more important than having the best #1 in the regular season. We’ve had that and we’ve won a whole lot of regular season games. In the playoffs when the #1 can get 2 or 3 starts in a series, the #1 is very important. Let’s face it this team is built for regular season success more than for playoff success.

Saying Santana would really help in the playoffs is not a knock on Wang. Stop spinning it that way.
# Mark McCray December 12th, 2007 at 8:52 pm

I heart the New York Yankees “ACE” Chien-Ming Wang and Taiwan!!!! So does The Bronx Stop (click me). See you and another 19 game season next year Wanger!!!!!
# Frank Marco December 12th, 2007 at 8:53 pm

“Rico”

you do realize that Sabathia never really had a good year until this year right?

CMW is the most consistant pitcher in baseball. There I said it, and I meant it.
# jk December 12th, 2007 at 8:54 pm

I give Wang a pass on the 2007 ALDS. His second start was on short rest so you have to toss that one. Not his fault Torre screwed up the rotation. Game 1 was ugly but you can’t throw him under the bus for it. If Joba did not turn into Lord of the Flies, no one would be complaining.
# Boston Dave December 12th, 2007 at 8:55 pm

Bill - very well said
# JT from NYC December 12th, 2007 at 8:56 pm

1. Greetings from America. Sorry your @ 6 but I had

2. Beckett sucked ass last year, but this year he is an ace. Funny how fast things can change, yet people are so fast to throw the towel on Wang.

3. Ace this, Ace that. Who cares!!! You dont need an ace to win in the playoffs. You just need to pitch well. El duque was never an ace, but in the playoffs he was lights out.

4. Sabathia was an ace to everyone, but he sucked in the playoffs. Just cause your an ace doesnt mean your a playoff stud. You cannot predict how people play in the playoffs. There are so many things that come into play, not just someones ability to pitch well in October.

5. the reason Wang failed in the playoffs this year is because he kept the ball up and gave up 5 hrs. He wasnt pitching his game. If he did, things would be very different.

6. What the hell does K rate have to do with being an Ace? Who ever made that bs up? Must be those baseball writers we so love to listen to…

7. Why cant wang ever reach becketts level? Beckett wasnt even at Wangs level last year.. Let’s not forget Becketts 5+ era in 2006.
# Doreen December 12th, 2007 at 8:58 pm

Did I miss something? I did not read anything comparing Wang to Beckett by Pete. And while he may stand to make some money from his book sales, is it too difficult to believe that because Pete has gotten to know CMW as a person he may actually just want to see the guy do well just because? I guess I’m naive.

And I doubt everything CMW has done can be attributed to luck.
# Dano December 12th, 2007 at 8:59 pm

Man, I totally confess I am lacking in the knowledge that you guys are, as your resident english fan, but…

CMW has been brilliant from day one, and it would be stupid to insist otherwise. he may not be the strikeout ace we all crave, or the postseason stud, but his stats still bear up pretty good…
# Meat December 12th, 2007 at 9:00 pm

Leave Long Duck Wang alone…

the guy never claimed to be an ace nor does he seem to care about personal acclaim. He seems to love pitching for the Yankees and he is a team-oriented kind of guy (unlike Beckett and Schilling).

Let’s give him more time before casting final judgement on the guy. jeeze.
# Meat December 12th, 2007 at 9:02 pm

Long Duck Wang for Cy Young in 2008!!
# Joe from Long Island December 12th, 2007 at 9:03 pm

For whatever reason, CMW had two of his worst games in his career in the ALDS. Like many fans, I was tremendously disappointed. BUT that does NOT mean that he is not a big game pitcher or a failure. Not based on two games. What, the win over Detroit in 2006 was the fluke, but not those two?

He may not be glamorous, but he usually gets the job done. We should all be so dependable.
# JT from NYC December 12th, 2007 at 9:04 pm

“I think he’s a good pitcher whose luck started to catch up to him at the end of the season thus far.”

How did his luck catch up to him at the end of the year???
The whole reason for his failure in the playoffs is because he didnt pitch his game. It’s not like he even got ground balls. All his balls were up in the zone and were being tatooed for doubles and hrs! Wang gave up 9hrs during the regular season. He gave up 5 in the playoffs!!!! So lets not kid ourselves.. if wang pitched in the playoffs, the way he did in the regular season (keep balls down in the zone and induce groudn balls), no one would be on his case. The fact is, the Wang we saw in the playoffs isnt the wang who got us 19 wins. His luck didnt run out. he just pitched like shit. Enough with this ground ball pitchers who dont have high k/9 wont be successful BS. -> in reference to this statement:

(It is working in the short term, but as Bill James as pointed out in the past, no pitcher with a K/9 below the league average has gone on to have a meaningful career.)
# The Fallen Phoenix December 12th, 2007 at 9:06 pm

I think it’s unfair to say that a team with a deep rotation isn’t built to win in the playoffs (not that the Yankees sport such a team). I’d be more inclined to gamble on a team with four solid, above-average starters than a team with one ace and three average to below-average starters, because while an ace can still pitch multiple games in a playoff series (two in a best-of-five, three in a best-of-seven), you still need to throw other pitchers out there for the other games.

And if you’re depending on one ace and he happens to have a poor postseason (Wang is a good example, even if you accept he isn’t an “ace”, or even Sabathia this past year), you’re in a lot of trouble if the rest of your rotation doesn’t match up well against another team’s.

There are many ways to field a playoff-caliber team and maximize its successes in the postseason. Having a top-five starter (or two, like Cleveland did) can be a luxury, but never a sure-fire way of winning in the playoffs. Luck plays a big part, and the Yankees have been victimized by bad luck as much as the next team these past few years, even with their pitching weaknesses. Tony Clark’s bouncer in the stands 2004? The Game 5 outfield collision 2005? Kenny Rodgers pitching like a possessed man 2006? Fausto Carmona being absolutely lights-out Game 2 2007?

I’m not saying the Yankees should have, or even should have been expected to, win the World Series any of the last four years. Last year I thought the Yankees were, on paper, the weakest of the four playoff teams (though the Angels, with all their injuries, proved to be a weaker team, in my estimation), even with the team’s success in the second-half after the rotation and bullpen stabilized and the line-up progressed to the mean. In the playoffs, however, especially over the last two or three years, I just don’t think there have been wide talent gulfs (or on-paper postseason effectiveness) between American League playoff teams, which means a bit of luck in either direction can drastically change the outcome of a series.

…that said, I wouldn’t complain if the Yankees acquired a top-five pitcher over the next few years, *especially* if it’s home-grown (why hello there Phil Hughes!). But it’s not the essential component to winning a World Series that everyone seems to imagine it to be.
# Harsha December 12th, 2007 at 9:07 pm

Wang’s first year in AL East: 8-5 4.02 ERA (first full season 19-6 3.63 ERA)
Beckett’s first year in AL East (remember folks, by now he was a seasoned WS champion veteran): 16-11 5.01 ERA

Even beckett struggled mightily.

This speaks a lot about the composure a guy like Wang can bring to a team (in my opinion, this is an important aspect of being a successful pitcher, let alone an ace). In arguably the best offensive division in the league (as a result of just hte yanks and bosox), wang has proven to be consistent, something beckett has yet to show.

Right now, as the yankees rotation is concerned, he is THE ace (big distinction from AN ace) by default. if you were to put wang on the red sox, would be THE ace? of course not, at this point that is beckett.
# Josh December 12th, 2007 at 9:07 pm

Anyone who bashes Wang, and he is a Yankee fan should be ashamed. Without Wang that past two years, it’s pretty simple to realize we wouldn’t have even made the playoffs.

He is an ace, and theres nobody I’d rather have on the mound after a loss, period. He pitches deep into games, and can fool a hitter even when they know whats coming.

The guy is still young, if you don’t realize how talented Wang really is, you must just look for something to harp about.
# Brandon (Proud supporter of "ALEX BEING ALEX") December 12th, 2007 at 9:08 pm

Admin
Admin

Posts : 1005
Join date : 2007-12-12

View user profile http://yankeeslegends.forumn.org

Back to top Go down

Re: The great debate on CMW continues

Post  Admin on Wed Dec 12, 2007 11:09 pm


Sources: Mitchell Report to name MVPs, All-Stars, won’t address amphetamines

MLB’s “not going to love it, the union’s not going to love it,” he said.
One source said that while the report will cite problems “top to bottom,” it also will expose “deep problems, the number of players, high-level MVPs and All-Stars,” as well as clubhouse personnel who allowed steroids and other banned substances in clubhouses or knew about it and didn’t say anything.

None of the player names had leaked out Wednesday night.

The rest of the report, the sources said, will focus on recommendations that include enhanced year-round testing and hiring a drug-testing company that uses the highest standards of independence and transparency.

# Yanksrule57 December 12th, 2007 at 9:08 pm

I haven’t seen this here tonight so let me add something:

What I’ve seen re criticism of CMW comes from the fantasy baseball community. They play a different game than we are used to watching. Strikeouts drive success in those leagues. CMW doesn’t strikeout many therefore he is useless to them. I was listening to ESPN radio this past year and heard their fantasy baseball host (don’t remember his name)said Wang was a “terrible” pitcher and would not win 19 games again in 2007. Well obviously he is an idiot but his prejudice was based mostly on CMW’s value as a fantasy pitcher.

Any comments on my theory?
# Harsha December 12th, 2007 at 9:12 pm

I agree with what JT said:

6. What the hell does K rate have to do with being an Ace? Who ever made that bs up? Must be those baseball writers we so love to listen to

I love when people bring in all of these stats, to try to put down wangs accomplishments, yet will continue to call Jeter “Mr. Intangibles”. Guess what guys, wang is pretty good with the intangibles too!
# Andy Hawkins December 12th, 2007 at 9:15 pm

Never has such a non-issue been so debated by Yankees fans. Granted, I don’t consider myself a “stat-head,” but Wang is an outstanding pitcher. I can see a pitcher get lucky and win 19 once if he’s not really that good. It has happened. But this guy won 19 twice.

The Yankees were going to lose that series to Cleveland whether they had Johan Santana or not last October. Why? Because Chien-Ming Wang would have pitched two games, and he’d have been lousy both times. Doesn’t make him a lousy pitcher, it just makes him a human being. Maybe his arm was tired. Maybe his finger was bothering him. A lot of things could have contributed to why he didn’t pitch well. It certainly wasn’t because he’s not a good pitcher.

Like I said, I don’t love statistics. I believe in what I see. But you’d think stat geeks would be going out of their way to DEFEND a pitcher with a sub-1.30 career WHIP whose K/9 ratio rose 50 percent from 2006 to 2007.
[/quote]

Admin
Admin

Posts : 1005
Join date : 2007-12-12

View user profile http://yankeeslegends.forumn.org

Back to top Go down

Re: The great debate on CMW continues

Post  Admin on Wed Dec 12, 2007 11:09 pm

# Brandon (Proud supporter of "ALEX BEING ALEX") December 12th, 2007 at 9:15 pm

Mitchell leaks
# Mark McCray December 12th, 2007 at 9:17 pm

I am watching a replay of the Yankees Indians ALDS Game 1. While watching Damon and Jeter bat, they both take the first pitch and each time it is a strike. I know this is Don Mattingly and Joe Torre’s teachings. I am wondering, will Girardi allow the Yankees to swing at the first pitch if it is a strike? Or will Kevin Long continue this…I think the most angry I got at Torre and the Yankees in 2007 is when Paul Byrd was pitching and for the first three innings was just lobbing first pitch fastballs down the middle for strikes and every Yankee stared at them like it was a gyroball. I just do not understand the purpose of starting out an at bat by taking a pitch for a strike. That leaves the batter with 2 strikes and 4 balls which is a definite advantage for the pitcher. Ahh. As I am typing it they are still watching pitches…..PLEASE JOE GIRARDI CHANGE THIS POLICY IN 2008. IT WORKED FOR MATTINGLY DURING HIS CAREER BUT ALEX RODRIGUEZ SHOULD NOT BE PLAYING THE STRATEGIES THAT DONNIE BASEBALL USED TO GET ON BASE.
# Jen-Chun December 12th, 2007 at 9:17 pm

HI I’m come from Taiwan, and this is my first time post here. Here is a little sound from me: I’m absolutely support CMWang. Even he can’t get many strikeouts. But he is doing the thing. pitch well as possible as he can.
# ghlu December 12th, 2007 at 9:18 pm

Wang actually improved his K rate from 3.17 in 2006 to 4.7 last year. So I am not sure why people are so down on him like he’s never going to improve just based on two bad games. By the same logic, Beckett should be executed after 2006 because of his 5+ ERA if he’s a yankees…
# EricVA December 12th, 2007 at 9:20 pm

Man oh man, usually I read and not post, but I can’t help it here. A few issues with what I’m reading:

1. Usually I do agree with Pete, but come on…don’t label people “stat-heads” like it’s an insult. Yes, everybody has the ability to skew data to fit their point of view, but using statistics isn’t wrong, evil or unnecessary. Remember, we all use stats to some extent (BA, HR, OBP, etc.) These are statistics people. Because some choose to look at more advanced statistics doesn’t make it wrong. Fans may obsess about small sample sizes, but these stats stay fairly constant (or are adjusted) throughout the history of baseball. That doesn’t make them a nerdy afterthought.

2. The argument that the statistics don’t take into account the “human factor” is just plain wrong. Over huge sample sizes, it is true that pitchers with low K/9 numbers tend not to have long successful careers. TEND TO. Can Wang be on the opposite side of that? Absolutely. And it won’t change the statistics at all, because there are a ton of groundball pitchers that backup that claim.

3. Please don’t spout out that Wang is not reliable in the playoffs. If that were the case, then only Andy Pettitte should start playoff games because nobody else can be trusted. Mr. Johan Santana gave up 6 ER in 7.2 innings against the Yanks in a playoff game. Obviously he can’t be trusted. But you all want him anyway. If you remember, Jeter hit into how many DP’s this October? Nobody threw him under a bus. “But he’s proven himself!” Yes, because he’s had a large sample size in the playoffs and has performed to his average. Give Wang 10 more playoff starts and he’ll be the same as always.
# seedse December 12th, 2007 at 9:22 pm

I am a big fan of Wang and I get infuriated when people are quick to dump on him.

What really gets me is that 3 other “big time” pitchers came up small in the post season and no one seems to want to discount their value either.

C.C. Sabathia was practically begging to have the Yankees put him out of his misery in Game 1 of the ALDS and the Yankees totally let him off the hook … and his two starts against Boston in the ALCS were horrible … both losses.

Jake Peavy started the one-game playoff against the Rockies and gave up 3 different leads if I am not mistaken.

John Lackey, as usual, was dreadful against the Red Sox in Game 1 of the ALDS

Plus, Wang won the only game in the 2006 ALDS against Detroit and Torre nearly blew that game by taking him out too early … he didnt seem to be too overcome by the magnitude of the moment in that game.

I really cant wait for his next chance to shine in a big spot … he is such a good pitcher and completely unabashed with the way he goes about his business … very professional and polished.

It will be nice to have his nay sayers and detractors eat some serious crow.
# PL December 12th, 2007 at 9:24 pm

James’ analysis is statistical only. It doesn’t take into account outliers like Wang who pitch that way BY DESIGN with the sinker.
# Yanksrule57 December 12th, 2007 at 9:25 pm

Mark McCray,

Jeter takes the first strike in most at bats. He is an excellent two strike hitter and can afford to be patient at the plate. I would not blame Torre for this even though Torre has been his manger for virtually his entire career. If you look up his stats re pitch per at bat I bet you will find he is among the highest. Not saying you are wrong about his strategy just that Torre and especially Mattingly aren’t the reason.
# Bart December 12th, 2007 at 9:26 pm

CMW is a historical statistical aberration because his sinker is not a junk pitch (Tommy John post surgery) but a power FB with movement. The problem is at times he elevates and at times he can’t keep in the zone low. Patient teams gave him a great deal of trouble last year, especially when they were able to get a runner on base where his problems increase. He is not the guy yet you want to have to be great against a tough team in a tough situation but he could be. The slider, and a solid chnage up would be enough. His mental make up is great and as Andy Pettit says he is a horse. I am happy he is a Yankee,and as hopeful to see him develop as IPK, Hughes, or Joba — but I would have traded him for Santana. I would have trade Hughes and IPK for Santana - not because I couldn’t love watching them become whatever they can be but because unless 2 of the four — CMW, IPK, JOBA, Hughes can match Andy Pettit in a short series the Yankees will not see the WS - before this offense is on the severe downslope and done. It is not just the player to player make-up of this team - it is the ability to match up against the Tigers an the Red Sox, and maybe again the Indians an the Angels in the short series. Maybe Melky matures, maybe Jeter, Damon, Matsui, Posada age verrrry slowly. Maybe the kids get three years of this offense. So it is not so much what Wang could be but what he must be.
# I am Cano (if only) December 12th, 2007 at 9:27 pm

Fallen Phoenix -

Definitely dug both of your posts, very well thought out and well articulated.

I would much rather have CMW on my team than Josh Beckett. Wang is

a) an “ace” in the most important sense: he is a great, great pitcher who gives his team a good (great) chance of winning every game in which he takes the mound

b) he will be more inexpensive than Beckett for a little while longer

c) he is classy

d) he RARELY gets fired up. i LOVE having a couple of pitchers who are just so even keeled (Wang, Hughes, Rivera) to ‘counteract’ a guy like Joba who is super passionate. it’s just a nice juxtaposition of emotions.

e) groundouts are sexy.

f) his groundballs help train cano in becoming the best 2b of all time.
# Mitchell's Eleven December 12th, 2007 at 9:29 pm

People want that shiny new piece every year, and Wang just isn’t shiny enough for that section of the fanbase. Add to that the fact that he didn’t perform well last postseason, and he doesn’t have a prayer with some fans. It’s a shame because, unlike what Bart thinks, two consecutive 19 win seasons isn’t an aberration. It makes for a damn fine pitcher. I’m sorry he’s not Josh Beckett.
# Meat December 12th, 2007 at 9:29 pm

YanksRule -

the yanks CANNOT have a blanket policy that you dont swing at the first pitch. they need to adjust when necessary (like againt paul byrd). patience is great… but they need to adjust too.
# Evil Empire December 12th, 2007 at 9:30 pm

Wang is a stud. He has no doubt been our best pitcher over the past 2 seasons and got us to the playoffs both years. This past season only I was only comfortable watching pettitte or wang on the hill and having the best shot at winning. He went into the 7th this year with a perfect game going and is only getting better. To not sign him long term is a travesty
# Brandon (Proud supporter of "ALEX BEING ALEX") December 12th, 2007 at 9:33 pm

looks likle Viz is close to signing w/ the Bucs….draft picks Very Happy
# Brandon (Proud supporter of "ALEX BEING ALEX") December 12th, 2007 at 9:34 pm

**LIKE Sad
# EY December 12th, 2007 at 9:35 pm

Great post again Peter.
Great post seedse.
Most of the other posters here have said what I need to say in support of Wang.

Great ace Johan Santana’s playoff (”big time”) performance is no better than Wang’s, and would’ve cost us our entire farm.

Ace of the ace, f-bombing, fist-pumping Beckett was a mere mortal in 2006 who had Randy Johnson-level ERA and never saw playoff action while Wang won our only game. There’s no guarantee he’ll keep his immortality next year.

Enough said.

Speaking of Taiwan, I’m flying there for winter break in 4 days. Can’t wait.
# CB December 12th, 2007 at 9:35 pm

It is remarkable how much people have made about Wang’s strikeout rate.

People who look at baseball “statistics” are constantly mixing up projections/ predictions with empirical data. And its amazing how they attempt to discount reality for the certainty of their predictions rules.

We’re constantly told that Wang’s low strikeout rate will spell doom for him. That eventually he’s going to get exposed as an inadequate pitcher. That’s the entire issue with the K/9 issue.

Yet the day of his unraveling hasn’t come - he’s been nothing but terrific with his low K/9 rate.

But what happens on the field matters less than what an abstract prediction dictates.

I’m always struck by how little baseball fans who profess to be “sabermetricians” actually know about statistics as a whole.

They read Bill James and somehow think this is sophisticated statistics.

It’s not. It’s amazing how much people make out of basic things like correlation.

Baseball sabermatricians have somehow convinced themselves that creating new metrics takes the places of reasoned analysis.

Then the lecture other people on how their view of baseball is incorrect or unsophisticated.
# Jennifer - Save Phil Hughes! December 12th, 2007 at 9:35 pm

Have any names been leaked?
# Rebecca--Optimist Prime--Save the Three Musketeers! December 12th, 2007 at 9:36 pm

It’s amazing how different the regular season is from the playoffs…

You can be the best in the regular season, but if you fail in the playoffs, you’re crucified.

It was A-Rod last year, Wang this year…

but why is no one crucifying Jeter? I can’t count how many dps he grounded into…
# Mark McCray December 12th, 2007 at 9:38 pm

Hey CB. Will you email me, I need to ask you a question…markbgsu@hotmail.com
# Brandon (Proud supporter of "ALEX BEING ALEX") December 12th, 2007 at 9:38 pm

but why is no one crucifying Jeter? I can’t count how many dps he grounded into…

and I agree
# Yanksrule57 December 12th, 2007 at 9:38 pm

Meat,

I doubt it was a “policy” unless the game situation dictated, i.e., down by three runs in the 7th or later. Joe Torre gave his veterans a lot of leeway, remember he was an MVP in the NL once, he knows when to let them go and when to pull it in.
Am I missing something here? I watched over 120 games for the each of past three seasons, and I haven’t noticed this as a problem. What makes some of you think this was an all the time thing?
# MarkK December 12th, 2007 at 9:38 pm

If Wang comes out next year and has a balanced season of beating people, he’ll be an Ace. He can do it so long as nothing gets into his head.
# MikeinBH December 12th, 2007 at 9:39 pm

I’ve been hearing Girardi may be on the list.

Admin
Admin

Posts : 1005
Join date : 2007-12-12

View user profile http://yankeeslegends.forumn.org

Back to top Go down

Bruney stays; Beam, DeSalvo and Rasner go

Post  Admin on Wed Dec 12, 2007 11:11 pm

Bruney stays; Beam, DeSalvo and Rasner go



http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2007/12/13/bruney-stays-beam-desalvo-and-rasner-go/

Brian Bruney can afford another tattoo, the Yankees decided to keep him. Bruney, Wilson Betemit, Robinson Cano and Chien-Ming Wang were all offered arbitration tonight.

The Yankees did not offer deals to RHPs T.J. Beam, Matt DeSalvo and Darrell Rasner. They now become free agents.

Once they officially add Alex Rodriguez, LaTroy Hawkins and Mariano Rivera, the Yankees will have 40 players on the 40-man roster

Admin
Admin

Posts : 1005
Join date : 2007-12-12

View user profile http://yankeeslegends.forumn.org

Back to top Go down

Re: The great debate on CMW continues

Post  Admin on Wed Dec 12, 2007 11:14 pm



Yankees non-tendered RHP Darrell Rasner, RHP Matt DeSalvo, RHP T.J. Beam and OF Bronson Sardinha.

Nothing to be too upset about. Rasner will probably get another shot at a rotation.

Admin
Admin

Posts : 1005
Join date : 2007-12-12

View user profile http://yankeeslegends.forumn.org

Back to top Go down

Re: The great debate on CMW continues

Post  Admin on Wed Dec 12, 2007 11:16 pm


12/13/07 Chicago Cubs
Did not tender a 2008 contract to RHP Mark Prior, making him a free agent.
Chicago White Sox
Did not tender 2008 contracts to INF Andy Gonzalez and LHP Heath Phillips, making them free agents.
Milwaukee Brewers
Tendered one-year contracts to SS J.J. Hardy, RHP, Dave Bush, RHP Claudio Vargas, LHP Brian Shouse and LHP Chris Capuano. Did not tender 2008 contracts to RHP Matt Wise and OF Kevin Mench, making them free agents.
St. Louis Cardinals
Tendered one-year contracts to RHP Todd Wellemeyer, C Yadier Molina, and OF Rick Ankiel; Did not tender a 2008 contract to IF Aaron Miles, making him a free agent.
Texas Rangers
Acquired 1B Ben Broussard from the Seattle Mariners in exchange for Minor League INF Tug Hulett.
12/12/07 Atlanta Braves
Tendered one-year contracts to 1B Mark Teixeira, OF Matt Diaz, INF Omar Infante, RHP Rafael Soriano, RHP Tyler Yates and and LHP Mike Gonzalez; Did not tender a contract to OF Willie Harris, making him a free agent.
Baltimore Orioles
Traded SS Miguel Tejada to the Houston Astros in exchange for OF Luke Scott, LHP Troy Patton, RHP Matt Albers, RHP Dennis Sarfate and 3B Mike Constanzo; Signed OF Tike Redman to a one-year contract and designated RHP Cory Doyne for assignment.
Chicago Cubs
Signed OF Kosuke Fukudome to a four-year contract.
Detroit Tigers
Non-tendered RHP Chad Durbin, making him a free agent.
Houston Astros
Acquired SS Miguel Tejada from the Baltimore Orioles in exchange for OF Luke Scott, RHP Matt Albers, LHP Troy Patton, RHP Dennis Sarfate and 3B Mike Costanzo; Claimed RHP Ryan Houston off waivers from the Toronto Blue Jays.
Kansas City Royals
Signed RHP Brandon Duckworth and IF Jason Smith to one-year contracts.
Royals announce they will not tender a 2008 Major League contract to OF Emil Brown.
Los Angeles Angels
Did not tender a contract to INF Dallas McPherson, making him a free agent.
Los Angeles Dodgers
Signed free agent CF Andruw Jones to a two-year contract; Signed RHP Tanyon Sturtze, RHP Mike Koplove, RHP Brian Falkenborg, RHP Rick Asadoorian, RHP Fernando Desgue, RHP Greg Jones, LHP Brian Shackelford, OF John-Ford Griffin, 1B John Lindsey, IF Angel Chavez and C Danny Ardoin to Minor League contracts with invitations to Spring Training.
Minnesota Twins
Did not tender a 2008 contract to OF Jason Tyner, making him a free agent.
New York Yankees
Declined to offer 2008 contracts to RHPs T.J. Beam, Matt DeSalvo and Darrell Rasner plus OF Bronson Sardinha, making them free agents.
Signed LHP Andy Pettitte to a one-year contract.
Pittsburgh Pirates
Signed free agent INF Chris Gomez to a one-year contract.
San Diego Padres
Signed RHP Jake Peavy to a five-year contract with a club option for 2013.
San Francisco Giants
The Giants did not offer a 2008 contract to RHP Scott Munter, making him a free agent.
Signed OF Aaron Rowand to a five-year contract.
St. Louis Cardinals
Signed LHP Ron Flores and C Mark Johnson, and re-signed RHP Hugo Castellanos and 3B Rico Washington to Minor League contracts with invitations to Spring Training.
Washington Nationals
Agreed to terms with RHP Luis Ayala, RHP John Patterson and RHP Ryan Wagner, thus avoiding salary arbitration; Non-tendered OF Nook Logan and LHP Michael O?Connor, making them free agents.

Admin
Admin

Posts : 1005
Join date : 2007-12-12

View user profile http://yankeeslegends.forumn.org

Back to top Go down

Re: The great debate on CMW continues

Post  Admin on Wed Dec 12, 2007 11:17 pm

Colorado Rockies
Signed RHP Aaron Cook to a four-year contract through 2011 with a mutual option for 2012.
Detroit Tigers
Re-signed OF Timo Perez to a one-year contract.
Milwaukee Brewers
Sent OF Laynce Nix outright to Triple-A Nashville and signed C Eric Munson to a one-year contract, avoiding arbitration; Designated RHP Matt Wise for assignment; signed RHP Greg Aquino, RHP Seth McClung and C Mike Rivera to one-year contracts.
Minnesota Twins
Signed OF Craig Monroe to a one-year contract.
Oakland Athletics
Sent LHP Jay Marshall outright to Triple-A Sacramento; signed LHP Ryan Wing and INF Brooks Conrad to Minor League contracts with invitations to Spring Training.
Washington Nationals
Signed C Paul Lo Duca to a one-year contract.

Admin
Admin

Posts : 1005
Join date : 2007-12-12

View user profile http://yankeeslegends.forumn.org

Back to top Go down

Re: The great debate on CMW continues

Post  Admin on Wed Dec 12, 2007 11:17 pm

Milwaukee Brewers
Designated OF Kevin Mench for assignment; signed RHP Eric Gagne to a one-year contract.
San Diego Padres
Signed free agent LHP Randy Wolf to a one-year contract.
12/8/07 Cleveland Indians
Acquired INF Jamey Carroll from the Rockies for a player to be named and designated RHP J.D. Martin for assignment.
Houston Astros
Added INF Mark Loretta to the 40-man roster after he accepted salary arbitration; Offer to LHP Trever Miller was declined.
New York Yankees
Designated OF Bronson Sardinha for assignment.
12/7/07 Atlanta Braves
Released RHP Lance Cormier.
Boston Red Sox
Re-signed free agent RHP Mike Timlin to a one-year contract.
Cincinnati Reds
Acquired nonroster RHP Justin James from the Blue Jays to complete the Dec. 5 trade.
Detroit Tigers
Outrighted OF Timo Perez to Triple-A Toledo.
Kansas City Royals
Designated C Paul Phillips for assignment.
Milwaukee Brewers
Acquired RHP Salomon Torres from the Pittsburgh Pirates in exchange for RHP Marino Salas and RHP Kevin Roberts.
New York Yankees
Free agent LHP Andy Pettitte accepted arbitration and returned to the Yankees; IF Andy Phillips declined an outright assignment to Triple-A Scranton/Wilkes-Barre and became a free agent.
Philadelphia Phillies
Signed RHP Jason Anderson, RHP Matt Childers, RHP Justin Pope, RHP Kris Wilson, LHP R.J. Swindle, INF Gookie Dawkins, INF Joey Hammond, INF Juan Tejeda, OF Jake Blalock, OF Branden Florence, OF Mike Spidale, C Orlando Guevara and C John Suomi.
Pittsburgh Pirates
Acquired RHPs Marino Salas and Kevin Roberts from the Milwaukee Brewers in exchange for RHP Salomon Torres.
San Diego Padres
Free agent C Michael Barrett accepted arbitration and returned to the Padres.
Toronto Blue Jays
Traded RHP Justin James to the Cincinnati Reds to complete Dec. 5 trade.

Admin
Admin

Posts : 1005
Join date : 2007-12-12

View user profile http://yankeeslegends.forumn.org

Back to top Go down

Re: The great debate on CMW continues

Post  Admin on Wed Dec 12, 2007 11:18 pm


12/13/07 Chicago Cubs
Did not tender a 2008 contract to RHP Mark Prior, making him a free agent.
Chicago White Sox
Did not tender 2008 contracts to INF Andy Gonzalez and LHP Heath Phillips, making them free agents.
Milwaukee Brewers
Tendered one-year contracts to SS J.J. Hardy, RHP, Dave Bush, RHP Claudio Vargas, LHP Brian Shouse and LHP Chris Capuano. Did not tender 2008 contracts to RHP Matt Wise and OF Kevin Mench, making them free agents.
St. Louis Cardinals
Tendered one-year contracts to RHP Todd Wellemeyer, C Yadier Molina, and OF Rick Ankiel; Did not tender a 2008 contract to IF Aaron Miles, making him a free agent.
Texas Rangers
Acquired 1B Ben Broussard from the Seattle Mariners in exchange for Minor League INF Tug Hulett.
12/12/07 Atlanta Braves
Tendered one-year contracts to 1B Mark Teixeira, OF Matt Diaz, INF Omar Infante, RHP Rafael Soriano, RHP Tyler Yates and and LHP Mike Gonzalez; Did not tender a contract to OF Willie Harris, making him a free agent.
Baltimore Orioles
Traded SS Miguel Tejada to the Houston Astros in exchange for OF Luke Scott, LHP Troy Patton, RHP Matt Albers, RHP Dennis Sarfate and 3B Mike Constanzo; Signed OF Tike Redman to a one-year contract and designated RHP Cory Doyne for assignment.
Chicago Cubs
Signed OF Kosuke Fukudome to a four-year contract.
Detroit Tigers
Non-tendered RHP Chad Durbin, making him a free agent.
Houston Astros
Acquired SS Miguel Tejada from the Baltimore Orioles in exchange for OF Luke Scott, RHP Matt Albers, LHP Troy Patton, RHP Dennis Sarfate and 3B Mike Costanzo; Claimed RHP Ryan Houston off waivers from the Toronto Blue Jays.
Kansas City Royals
Signed RHP Brandon Duckworth and IF Jason Smith to one-year contracts.
Royals announce they will not tender a 2008 Major League contract to OF Emil Brown.
Los Angeles Angels
Did not tender a contract to INF Dallas McPherson, making him a free agent.
Los Angeles Dodgers
Signed free agent CF Andruw Jones to a two-year contract; Signed RHP Tanyon Sturtze, RHP Mike Koplove, RHP Brian Falkenborg, RHP Rick Asadoorian, RHP Fernando Desgue, RHP Greg Jones, LHP Brian Shackelford, OF John-Ford Griffin, 1B John Lindsey, IF Angel Chavez and C Danny Ardoin to Minor League contracts with invitations to Spring Training.
Minnesota Twins
Did not tender a 2008 contract to OF Jason Tyner, making him a free agent.
New York Yankees
Declined to offer 2008 contracts to RHPs T.J. Beam, Matt DeSalvo and Darrell Rasner plus OF Bronson Sardinha, making them free agents.
Signed LHP Andy Pettitte to a one-year contract.
Pittsburgh Pirates
Signed free agent INF Chris Gomez to a one-year contract.
San Diego Padres
Signed RHP Jake Peavy to a five-year contract with a club option for 2013.
San Francisco Giants
The Giants did not offer a 2008 contract to RHP Scott Munter, making him a free agent.
Signed OF Aaron Rowand to a five-year contract.
St. Louis Cardinals
Signed LHP Ron Flores and C Mark Johnson, and re-signed RHP Hugo Castellanos and 3B Rico Washington to Minor League contracts with invitations to Spring Training.
Washington Nationals
Agreed to terms with RHP Luis Ayala, RHP John Patterson and RHP Ryan Wagner, thus avoiding salary arbitration; Non-tendered OF Nook Logan and LHP Michael O?Connor, making them free agents.
12/11/07 Colorado Rockies
Signed RHP Aaron Cook to a four-year contract through 2011 with a mutual option for 2012.
Detroit Tigers
Re-signed OF Timo Perez to a one-year contract.
Milwaukee Brewers
Sent OF Laynce Nix outright to Triple-A Nashville and signed C Eric Munson to a one-year contract, avoiding arbitration; Designated RHP Matt Wise for assignment; signed RHP Greg Aquino, RHP Seth McClung and C Mike Rivera to one-year contracts.
Minnesota Twins
Signed OF Craig Monroe to a one-year contract.
Oakland Athletics
Sent LHP Jay Marshall outright to Triple-A Sacramento; signed LHP Ryan Wing and INF Brooks Conrad to Minor League contracts with invitations to Spring Training.
Washington Nationals
Signed C Paul Lo Duca to a one-year contract.
12/10/07 Milwaukee Brewers
Designated OF Kevin Mench for assignment; signed RHP Eric Gagne to a one-year contract.
San Diego Padres
Signed free agent LHP Randy Wolf to a one-year contract.
12/8/07 Cleveland Indians
Acquired INF Jamey Carroll from the Rockies for a player to be named and designated RHP J.D. Martin for assignment.
Houston Astros
Added INF Mark Loretta to the 40-man roster after he accepted salary arbitration; Offer to LHP Trever Miller was declined.
New York Yankees
Designated OF Bronson Sardinha for assignment.
12/7/07 Atlanta Braves
Released RHP Lance Cormier.
Boston Red Sox
Re-signed free agent RHP Mike Timlin to a one-year contract.
Cincinnati Reds
Acquired nonroster RHP Justin James from the Blue Jays to complete the Dec. 5 trade.
Detroit Tigers
Outrighted OF Timo Perez to Triple-A Toledo.
Kansas City Royals
Designated C Paul Phillips for assignment.
Milwaukee Brewers
Acquired RHP Salomon Torres from the Pittsburgh Pirates in exchange for RHP Marino Salas and RHP Kevin Roberts.
New York Yankees
Free agent LHP Andy Pettitte accepted arbitration and returned to the Yankees; IF Andy Phillips declined an outright assignment to Triple-A Scranton/Wilkes-Barre and became a free agent.
Philadelphia Phillies
Signed RHP Jason Anderson, RHP Matt Childers, RHP Justin Pope, RHP Kris Wilson, LHP R.J. Swindle, INF Gookie Dawkins, INF Joey Hammond, INF Juan Tejeda, OF Jake Blalock, OF Branden Florence, OF Mike Spidale, C Orlando Guevara and C John Suomi.
Pittsburgh Pirates
Acquired RHPs Marino Salas and Kevin Roberts from the Milwaukee Brewers in exchange for RHP Salomon Torres.
San Diego Padres
Free agent C Michael Barrett accepted arbitration and returned to the Padres.
Toronto Blue Jays
Traded RHP Justin James to the Cincinnati Reds to complete Dec. 5 trade.
12/6/07 Arizona Diamondbacks
Signed INF Augie Ojeda to a one-year contract.
Baltimore Orioles
Selected LHP Ryan Rodriguez from the Chicago White Sox, 1B Tim Brown from the San Padres, RHP J.P. Martinez from the Minnesota Twins and RHP Randor Bierd from the Detroit Tigers in the Rule 5 Draft.
Chicago Cubs
Acquired RHP Tim Lahey from the Tampa Bay Rays for cash.
Chicago White Sox
Selected RHP Santo Luis in the minor-league phase of the Rule 5 Draft.
Cincinnati Reds
Selected RHP Sergio Valenzuela from the Braves in the Rule 5 Draft.
Houston Astros
Selected LHP Wesley Wright from the Dodgers in the Rule 5 Draft.
Kansas City Royals
Signed OF Jose Guillen to a three-year contract; Selected LHP Ray Liotta from the White Sox in the Rule 5 Draft.
New York Mets
Selected RHP Steven Register from the Rockies in the Rule 5 Draft.
Oakland Athletics
Selected RHP Fernando Hernandez from the White Sox in the Rule 5 Draft; Claimed LHP Jay Marshall off waivers from the Boston Red Sox; Designated RHP Jose Garcia for assignment.
Philadelphia Phillies
Selected LHP Travis Blackley, RHP Lincoln Holdzkom, 3B Patrick Sellers and 2B Luke Appert in the Rule 5 Draft.
Pittsburgh Pirates
Selected RHP Evan Meek from the Rays in the Rule 5 Draft and released INF Jose Castillo.
San Diego Padres
Selected RHP Michael Gardner from the Yankees and 2B Callix Crabbe from the Brewers in the Rule 5 Draft; Acquired RHP Carlos Guevara from the Marlins for cash.
San Francisco Giants
Selected LHP Jose Capellan in the Rule 5 Draft.
Seattle Mariners
Selected RHP R.A. Dickey from the Twins in the Rule 5 Draft.
St. Louis Cardinals
Selected OF Brian Barton in the Rule 5 Draft.
Texas Rangers
Acquired 1B Chris Shelton from the Detroit Tigers in exchange for OF Freddy Guzman; Selected RHP Levi Romero, OF Dustin Majewski, RHP Clayton Hamilton, IF Jaime Trejo and RHP Francisco Cordova in the Rule 5 Draft.
Toronto Blue Jays
Released RHP Ryan Houston and selected RHP Randy Wells from the Chicago Cubs in the Rule 5 Draft.
Washington Nationals
Selected INF Matt Whitney from the Cleveland Indians and OF Garrett Guzman from the Minnesota Twins in the Rule 5 Draft; Signed free agent INF Aaron Boone to a one-year contract.
12/5/07 Cincinnati Reds
Traded OF Buck Coats to the Toronto Blue Jays in exchange for a player to be named later or cash; Released INF Jorge Cantu; Signed free agent RHP Jon Adkins and free agent RHP Justin Lehr to Minor League contracts with invitations to Spring Training; Invited RHP Johnny Cueto, LHP Matthew Maloney, RHP Tom Shearn, C Alvin Colina, C Chris Kroski and OF Jay Bruce to Spring Training.
Detroit Tigers
Acquired LHP Dontrelle Willis and 3B Miguel Cabrera from the Florida Marlins in exchange for RHP Burke Badenhop, RHP Eulogio De La Cruz, RHP Dallas Trahern, LHP Andrew Miller, C Mike Rabelo and OF Cameron Maybin; Acquired OF Freddy Guzman from the Rangers for 1B Chris Shelton.
Florida Marlins
Acquired RHP Burke Badenhop, RHP Eulogio De La Cruz, RHP Dallas Trahern, LHP Andrew Miller, C Mike Rabelo and OF Cameron Maybin from the Detroit Tigers in exchange for LHP Dontrelle Willis and 3B Miguel Cabrera.
Milwaukee Brewers
Signed RHP David Riske to a three-year contract; designated OF Laynce Nix for assignment.
New York Yankees
Acquired RHP Jonathan Albaladejo from the Washington Nationals in exchange for RHP Tyler Clippard.
Philadelphia Phillies
Released RHP Julio Mateo.
San Diego Padres
Sold the rights to OF Terrmel Sledge to the Hokkaido Nippon Ham Fighters of Japan's Pacific League in exchange for cash considerations.
St. Louis Cardinals
Released OF So Taguchi and OF John Rodriguez.
Toronto Blue Jays
Acquired OF/INF Buck Coats from the Cincinnati Reds in exchange for a player to be named later or cash.
Washington Nationals
Released LHP Billy Traber and LHP Justin Jones; Acquired RHP Tyler Clippard from the Yankees for RHP Jonathan Albaladejo.
12/4/07 Atlanta Braves
Acquired LHP Will Ohman and INF Omar Infante from the Cubs in exchange for RHP Jose Ascanio, and designated OF Willie Harris for assignment.
Chicago Cubs
Acquired RHP Jose Ascanio from the Atlanta Braves in exchange LHP Will Ohman and INF Omar Infante.
Colorado Rockies
Acquired RHP Jose Capellan from Detroit in exchange for RHP Denny Bautista.
Detroit Tigers
Acquired RHP Denny Bautista from the Colorado Rockies in exchange for RHP Jose Capellan.
Kansas City Royals
Released RHP Colby Lewis.
Milwaukee Brewers
Signed LHP Chris Narveson and RHP Scott Cassidy to Minor League contracts with invitations to Spring Training.
Minnesota Twins
Sent INF Chris Basak outright to Triple-A Rochester.
12/3/07 Arizona Diamondbacks
Traded OF Carlos Quentin to the White Sox in exchange for INF Chris Carter.
Baltimore Orioles
Orioles signed C Guillermo Quiroz to a one-year contract.
Chicago White Sox
Acquired OF Carlos Quentin from the Diamondbacks in exchange for Minor League 1B Chris Carter; designated LHP Heath Phillips for assignment.
New York Yankees
Signed C Jose Molina to a two-year contract; Designated 1B Andy Phillips for assignment.
Pittsburgh Pirates
Claimed INF Josh Wilson from Tampa Bay and RHP Ty Taubenheim from Toronto off waivers; designated INF Brad Eldred and RHP Brian Rogers for assignment.
Tampa Bay Rays
Traded OF Elijah Dukes to the Nationals in exchange for LHP Glenn Gibson.
Washington Nationals
Acquired OF Elijah Dukes from the Rays in exchange for LHP Glenn Gibson.
12/2/07 Houston Astros
Signed free agent 2B Kazuo Matsui to a three-year contract.
12/1/07 Atlanta Braves
Designated RHP Lance Cormier for assignment.
Boston Red Sox
Offered arbitration to RHP Eric Gagne and RHP Mike Timlin and declined to offer arbitration to RHP Matt Clement, C Doug Mirabelli, INF Royce Clayton, INF Eric Hinske and OF Bobby Kielty; Signed OF Jonathan Van Every to a one-year contract.
Cincinnati Reds
Declined to offer arbitration to LHP Eddie Guardado and LHP Eric Milton.
New York Yankees
Offered salary arbitration to LHP Andy Pettitte, RHP Luis Vizcaino, 3B Alex Rodriguez and RHP Mariano Rivera and declined to offer arbitration to RHP Roger Clemens, C Jose Molina and LHP Ron Villone.
Philadelphia Phillies
Offered arbitration to OF Aaron Rowand and declined to offer arbitration to RHP Freddy Garcia.
San Diego Padres
Offered arbitration to OF Mike Cameron and C Michael Barrett and declined to offer arbitration to OF Milton Bradley.
San Francisco Giants
Offered arbitration to 3B Pedro Feliz and declined to offer arbitration to OF Barry Bonds, 1B Ryan Klesko, RHP Russ Ortiz and C Mike Matheny

Admin
Admin

Posts : 1005
Join date : 2007-12-12

View user profile http://yankeeslegends.forumn.org

Back to top Go down

Re: The great debate on CMW continues

Post  Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Back to top

- Similar topics

 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum